St. John of the Cross with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Beginning to Pray Special – Discerning Hearts Podcast

St. John of the Cross with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Beginning to Pray Special – Discerning Hearts Podcast

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor discuss the relationship between St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. St. John initially considered joining the Carthusians due to his inclination toward the contemplative life. However, after encountering St. Teresa and her vision for the reform of the Carmelite order, he changed his vocation. St. Teresa convinced him that the renewal of the Church’s mental prayer and contemplation would be achieved through the reform of the Carmelites.

St. John of the Cross’ insights on the diversity of gifts within the Church are also mentioned, emphasizing the complementarity of different religious orders.

St. John of the Cross

For The Ascent of Mt. Carmel Audio Book visit this Discerning Hearts page

For commentary on various sections of The Ascent of Mt. Carmel by Dr. Lilles’ visit this Discerning Hearts page


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

LST9 – The Passion of St. Therese – The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Podcast

The Passion of St. Therese – The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy GallagherBA6 - "Refuse to Accept Discouragement" - Begin Again: The Spiritual Legacy of Ven. Bruno Lanteri with Fr. Timothy Gallagher

In this conversation, Fr. Gallagher reflects on the suffering of St. Therese and her experience of it in light of the “Little Way” as seen in her letters and the observations from others.

St. Therese of Liesuex

Here are some of the various texts Fr. Gallagher refers to in this episode:

The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Vol. I: 1877-1890 (Critical edition of the complete works of Saint Thérèse of Lisieux)

Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Vol. II

This is one of the letters Fr. Gallagher refers to in this episode
An Excerpt from LT 226 From Thérèse to P. Roulland.

May 9, 1897

I do not understand, Brother, how you seem to doubt your immediate entrance into heaven if the infidels were to take your life. I know one must be very pure to appear before the God of all Holiness, but I know, too, that the Lord is infinitely just; and it is this justice which frightens so many souls that is the object of my joy and confidence. To be just is not only to exercise severity in order to punish the guilty; it is also to recognize right intentions and to reward virtue. I expect as much from God’s justice as from His mercy. It is because He is just that “He is compassionate and filled with gentleness, slow to punish, and abundant in mercy, for He knows our frailty, He remembers we are only dust. As a father has tenderness for his children, so the Lord has compassion on us!!” 6 Oh, Brother, when hearing these beautiful and consoling words of the Prophet-King, how can we doubt that God will open the doors of His kingdom to His children who loved Him even to sacrificing all for Him, who have not only left their family and their country to make Him known and loved, but even desire to give their life for Him whom they love…. Jesus was very right in saying that there is no greater love than that! 7 How would He allow Himself to be overcome in generosity? How would He purify in the flames of purgatory souls consumed in the fires of divine love? It is true that no human life is exempt from faults; only the Immaculate Virgin presents herself absolutely pure before the divine Majesty. Since she loves us and since she knows our weakness, what have we to fear? Here are a lot of sentences to express my thought, or rather not to succeed in expressing it, I wanted simply to say that it seems to me all missionaries are martyrs by desire and will and that, as a consequence, not one should have to go to purgatory. If there remains in their soul at the moment of appearing before God some trace of human weakness, the Blessed Virgin obtains for them the grace of making an act of perfect love, and then she gives them the palm and the crown that they so greatly merited.

This is, Brother, what I think of God’s justice; 8 my way is all confidence and love. I do not understand souls who fear a Friend so tender. At times, when I am reading certain spiritual treatises in which perfection is shown through a thousand obstacles, surrounded by a crowd of illusions, my poor little mind quickly tires; I close the learned book that is breaking my head and drying up my heart, 9 and I take up Holy Scripture. 10 Then all seems luminous to me; a single word uncovers for my soul infinite horizons, perfection seems simple to me, I see it is sufficient to recognize one’s nothingness and to abandon oneself as a child into God’s arms. Leaving to great souls, to great minds the beautiful books I cannot understand, much less put into practice, I rejoice at being little since children alone and those who resemble them will be admitted to the heavenly banquet. 11 I am very happy there are many mansions in God’s kingdom, 12 for if there were only the one whose description and road seems incomprehensible to me, I would not be able to enter there. I would like, however, not to be too far from your mansion; in consideration of your merits, I hope God will give me the favor of sharing in your glory, just as on earth the sister of a conqueror, were she deprived of the gifts of nature, shares in the honors bestowed on her brother in spite of her own poverty.

St. Therese of Lisieux. Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Volume II: General Correspondence 1890-1897 (Critical Edition of the Complete Works of Saint Therese of Lisieux Book 2) (Kindle Locations 7175-7190). ICS publications. Kindle Edition..


Father Timothy M. Gallagher, O.M.V., was ordained in 1979 as a member of the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, a religious community dedicated to retreats and spiritual formation according to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius.  Fr. Gallagher is featured on the EWTN series “Living the Discerning Life:  The Spiritual Teachings of St. Ignatius of Loyola”. For more information on how to obtain copies of Fr. Gallaghers’s various books and audio which are available for purchase, please visit  his  website:   frtimothygallagher.org

For the other episodes in this series check out “The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts” page

LST7 – The Personality of St. Therese – The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy Gallagher Discerning Hearts Podcast

BA6 - "Refuse to Accept Discouragement" - Begin Again: The Spiritual Legacy of Ven. Bruno Lanteri with Fr. Timothy Gallagher

The Personality of St. Therese – The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy Gallagher

In this conversation, Fr. Gallagher continues to reflect on the illuminating personality of St. Therese, by examining several letters written about her and letters she wrote to extended family members.

St. Therese of Liesuex

Here are some of the various texts Fr. Gallagher refers to in this episode:

The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Vol. I: 1877-1890 (Critical edition of the complete works of Saint Thérèse of Lisieux)

Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Vol. II


This is one of the letters Fr. Gallagher refers to in this episode
LT 166 From Thérèse to Mme. Pottier (Céline Maudelonde).

J.M.J.T.

Jesus †
Carmel, July 16, 1894

Dear little Céline,

Your letter gave me real joy. I marvel at how the Blessed Virgin is pleased to answer all your desires. Even before your marriage, she willed that the soul to whom you were to be joined form only one with yours by means of an identity of feelings. What a grace for you to feel you are so well understood, and, above all, to know your union will be everlasting, that after this life, you will still be able to love the husband who is so dear to you!…

They have passed away, then, for us both the blessed days of our childhood! We are now at the serious stage of life; the road we are following is different, however, the goal is the same. Both of us must have only one same purpose: to sanctify ourselves in the way God has traced out for us.1

I feel, dear little friend, that I can speak freely to you; you understand the language of faith better than that of the world, and the Jesus of your First Communion has remained the Master of your heart. In Him, you love the beautiful soul who forms only one with yours, and it is because of Him that your love is so tender and so strong.

Oh! how beautiful is our religion; instead of contracting hearts (as the world believes), it raises them up and renders them capable of loving, or loving with a love almost infinite since this love must continue after this mortal life which is given to us only for meriting the homeland of heaven where we shall find again the dear ones whom we have loved on earth!

I had asked for you, dear Céline, from Our Lady of Mount Carmel the grace you have obtained at Lourdes. How happy I am that you are clothed in the holy scapular!2 It is a sure sign of predestination, and besides are you not more intimately united by means of it to your little sisters in Carmel?…

You ask, dear little cousin, that I pray for your dear husband; do you think, then, I could fail in this?… No, I could not separate you in my weak prayers. I am asking Our Lord to be as generous in your regard as he was formerly to the spouses at the wedding of Cana. May He always change water into wine!3… That is to say, may He continue to make you happy and to soften as much as possible the trials that you encounter in life.

Trials, how could I place this word in my letter, when I know everything is happiness for you?…

Pardon me, dear little friend; enjoy in peace the joy God is giving you, without disturbing yourself regarding the future. He is reserving for you, I am sure, new graces and many consolations.

Our good Mother Marie de Gonzague is very appreciative of your kind remembrance of her, and she herself is not forgetting her dear little Céline. Our Mother and Sister Marie of the Sacred Heart are also very happy because of your joy, and they ask me to assure you of their affection.

I dare, dear little cousin,4 to beg you to offer my respectful regards to Monsieur Pottier, whom I cannot refrain from considering also as my cousin.

I leave you, dear Céline, remaining always united to you in my heart, and I shall, throughout my life, be happy to call myself, Your little sister in Jesus,

Thérèse of the Child Jesus
rel. carm. ind.

St. Therese of Lisieux. Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux, Volume II: General Correspondence 1890-1897 (Critical Edition of the Complete Works of Saint Therese of Lisieux Book 2) (Kindle Locations 3118-3148). ICS publications. Kindle Edition.


Father Timothy M. Gallagher, O.M.V., was ordained in 1979 as a member of the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, a religious community dedicated to retreats and spiritual formation according to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius.  Fr. Gallagher is featured on the EWTN series “Living the Discerning Life:  The Spiritual Teachings of St. Ignatius of Loyola”. For more information on how to obtain copies of Fr. Gallaghers’s various books and audio which are available for purchase, please visit  his  website:   frtimothygallagher.org

For the other episodes in this series check out “The Letters of St. Therese of Lisieux with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts” page

BTP-WP7 Chapters 20 thru 26 – The Way of Perfection by St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Chapters 20 thru 26 – The Way of Perfection by St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Lilles talks about the nature of vocal prayer, the prayer of meditation, and the prayer of recollection.

Saint Teresa Painting Convento de Santa Teresa Avila Castile Spain.

CHAPTER 20 – Begins to treat of prayer. Addresses souls who cannot reason with the understanding.

CHAPTER 21 – Describes the great importance of setting out upon the practice of prayer with firm resolution and of heeding no difficulties put in the way by the devil

CHAPTER 22 – Explains the meaning of mental prayer

CHAPTER 23 – Describes the importance of not turning back when one has set out upon the way of prayer. Repeats how necessary it is to be resolute

CHAPTER 24 – Describes how vocal prayer may be practised with perfection and how closely allied it is to mental prayer

CHAPTER 25 – Describes the great gain which comes to a soul when it practises vocal prayer perfectly. Shows how God may raise it thence to things supernatural

CHAPTER 26 – Continues the description of a method for recollecting the thoughts. Describes means of doing this. This chapter is very profitable for those who are beginning prayer


For the audio recordings of  St. Teresa’s “The Way of Perfection” you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics audio page

For other episodes in the series visit
The Discerning Hearts “The Way of Perfection with Dr. Anthony Lilles


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

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BTP-WP6 Chapter 19: The Thirst of the Soul – The Way of Perfection by St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray w/Dr. Anthony Lilles

Chapter 19: The Thirst of the Soul – The Way of Perfection by St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Lilles continues the discussion of the “Living Water”, as well as the nature of “spiritual thirst” and the Woman at the Well as described by St. Teresa of Avila.  We also discuss the danger of spiritual gluttony and envy in prayer.

CHAPTER 19 –
Begins to treat of prayer. Addresses souls who cannot reason with the understanding.

Saint Teresa Painting Convento de Santa Teresa Avila Castile Spain.

For the audio recordings of  St. Teresa’s “The Way of Perfection” you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics audio page

For other episodes in the series visit
The Discerning Hearts “The Way of Perfection with Dr. Anthony Lilles


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

"51ZjgQ+tcgL._SY344_BO1,204,203,2</p

Novena to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Day 7 – Discerning Hearts podcast

Our-Lady-of-Mount-Carmel-3
O Mary, Help of Christians,
you assured us that wearing your Scapular worthily
would keep us  from harm.
Protect us in both body and soul
with your continual aid.
May all that we do be pleasing to your Son and to you.
(State your request here…)

Recite the following prayers…

Our Father…
Hail Mary…
Glory Be…

Our Lady of Mount Carmel,
pray for us.

Novena to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Day 5 – Discerning Hearts podcast

our-lady-of-mt-225x300
O Mother of Fair Love,
through your goodness,
as your children,
we are called to live in the spirit of Carmel.
Help us to live in charity with one another,
prayerful as Elijah of old,
and mindful of our call to minister to God’s people.
(State your request here…)

Recite the following prayers…

Our Father…
Hail Mary…
Glory Be…

Our Lady of Mount Carmel,
pray for us.

Novena to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Day 4 – Discerning Hearts podcast


When you gave us, Gracious Lady,Our-Lady-of-Mount-Carmel-2-251x300
the Scapular as our Habit,
you called us to be not only servants,
but also your own children.
We ask you to gain for us from your Son
the grace to live as your children in joy, peace and love.
(State your request here…)

Recite the following prayers…

Our Father…
Hail Mary…
Glory Be…

Our Lady of Mount Carmel,
pray for us.

Novena to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Day 3 – Discerning Hearts podcast


O Queen of Heaven,
you gave us the Scapular as an outward sign
by which we might be known as your faithful children.
May we always wear it with honor
by avoiding sin and imitating your virtues.
Help us to be faithful to this desire of ours.
(State your request here…)

Recite the following prayers…

Our Father…
Hail Mary…
Glory Be…

Our Lady of Mount Carmel,
pray for us.

Novena to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Day 2 – Discerning Hearts podcast


Most Holy Mary, Our Mother, in your great love for us
you gave us the Holy Scapular of Mount Carmel,
having heard the prayers
of your chosen son Saint Simon Stock.
Help us now to wear it faithfully and with devotion.
May it be a sign to us of our desire to grow in holiness.

(State your request here…)

Recite the following prayers…

Our Father…
Hail Mary…
Glory Be…

Our Lady of Mount Carmel,
pray for us.