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Corpus Christi Sunday – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Corpus Christi Sunday- Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff

Msgr. John Esseff and Kris McGregor discuss the significance of the Feast of Corpus Christi, emphasizing the profound importance of the Eucharist in the Catholic faith. Msgr. Esseff reflects on a beautiful morning where nature itself seemed to glorify the Trinity. He explains how the celebration of the Eucharist is a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary and that every Mass around the world continues this unbroken lineage from the Last Supper. The Eucharist is not just bread and wine but the actual body and blood of Christ. To recognize the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must deepen our faith and relationship with Him.

Msgr. Esseff shares personal experiences and anecdotes to illustrate the transformative power of the Eucharist and how it brings believers into an intimate union with Christ. The common neglect of the Eucharist, even among Catholics, and the importance of Eucharistic adoration and frequent reception of Communion calls us to a renewed devotion to the Eucharist and its significance as a source of eternal life and divine love.

From the Gospel of St. John, Chapter 6

“The next day, the crowd that remained across the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not gone along with his disciples in the boat, but only his disciples had left. Other boats came from Tiberias near the place where they had eaten the bread when the Lord gave thanks. 24 When the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they themselves got into boats and came to Capernaum looking for Jesus. And when they found him across the sea they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?” Jesus answered them and said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.” So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.” So they said to him, “What sign can you do, that we may see and believe in you? What can you do? Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written:

‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. But I told you that although you have seen, you do not believe. Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.”

The Jews murmured about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” and they said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop murmuring among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. It is written in the prophets:

‘They shall all be taught by God.’

Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

The Words of Eternal Life. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions:

How do I personally experience the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist during Mass?
Do I truly believe that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ?
How often do I receive Communion, and do I prepare myself adequately for it?
How frequently do I spend time in Eucharistic adoration, and what is my attitude towards this practice?
Do I ensure that the sick and homebound in my community receive the Eucharist regularly?
Do I approach the Eucharist with reverence, or have I become indifferent to its significance?
In what ways has the Eucharist transformed my life and deepened my relationship with Jesus?
How can I better educate others about the significance of the Eucharist and encourage them to receive it with faith and reverence?
How does understanding the historical continuity of the Eucharist from the Last Supper to today strengthen my faith?
How do I contemplate and appreciate the sacrificial nature of the Eucharist during Mass?

Msgr. John A. Esseff is a Roman Catholic priest in the Diocese of Scranton. He was ordained on May 30, 1953, by the late Bishop William J. Hafey, D.D. at St. Peter’s Cathedral in Scranton, PA. Msgr. Esseff served a retreat director and confessor to St. Teresa of Calcutta. He continues to offer direction and retreats for the sisters of the Missionaries of Charity around the world. Msgr. Esseff encountered St. Padre Pio, who would become a spiritual father to him. He has lived in areas around the world, serving in the Pontifical Missions, a Catholic organization established by St. Pope John Paul II to bring the Good News to the world especially to the poor. Msgr. Esseff assisted the founders of the Institute for Priestly Formation and continues to serve as a spiritual director for the Institute. He continues to serve as a retreat leader and director to bishops, priests and sisters and seminarians, and other religious leaders around the world.

SH1 – Introduction to the Enthronement – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Introduction to the Enthronement – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff

Msgr. John Esseff discusses the importance of enthroning the Sacred Heart of Jesus in families and individual hearts. He emphasizes that this act is not merely symbolic but a profound relationship with Jesus, making Him the head of every family and individual life. He explains the historical and theological significance of the Sacred Heart, highlighting how Jesus’ heart is a symbol of divine love, revealed to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque in the 17th century. Jesus showed her His heart to demonstrate His immense love and to invite humanity to respond with love in return.

The challenges faced by families today remind us that the enthronement of the Sacred Heart can bring unity, healing, and strength to households. Msgr. Esseff calls on us to invite Jesus into their homes and hearts, and that God’s love is universal and transformative. Love is stronger than hate and that Jesus’ love is the ultimate answer to the world’s suffering and division; which should embolden us to embrace this love and to establish a deep, personal relationship with Jesus through the devotion to His Sacred Heart.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

What does it mean to enthrone the Sacred Heart of Jesus in your home and heart, and how can this act transform your personal and family life?
How does the image of the Sacred Heart reveal the depth of Jesus’ love for you personally, and how can you respond to this love in your daily actions?
What is the significance of Jesus’ revelation to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, and how does it influence your understanding of the Sacred Heart devotion?
In what ways can your family become a reflection of the divine love of the Trinity, and what steps can you take to foster this unity?
How can the enthronement of the Sacred Heart help you and your family overcome spiritual and emotional challenges in today’s world?
How does Jesus’ universal love, as discussed in the podcast, challenge you to love others, including those who may be difficult to love or who oppose your beliefs?
What practical steps can you take to deepen your personal relationship with Jesus and to make Him the center of your life?
How can you embody the message that love is stronger than hate in your interactions with others, especially in situations of conflict or misunderstanding?
How can you incorporate daily reflections on your union with Jesus into your routine, and what impact might this have on your spiritual growth?
What does it mean for non-Catholic Christians to enthrone the Sacred Heart in their homes, and how can this act foster greater unity among different Christian denominations?

Msgr. John A. Esseff is a Roman Catholic priest in the Diocese of Scranton. He was ordained on May 30, 1953, by the late Bishop William J. Hafey, D.D. at St. Peter’s Cathedral in Scranton, PA. Msgr. Esseff served a retreat director and confessor to St. Teresa of Calcutta. He continues to offer direction and retreats for the sisters of the Missionaries of Charity around the world. Msgr. Esseff encountered St. Padre Pio, who would become a spiritual father to him. He has lived in areas around the world, serving in the Pontifical Missions, a Catholic organization established by St. Pope John Paul II to bring the Good News to the world especially to the poor. Msgr. Esseff assisted the founders of the Institute for Priestly Formation and serves as a spiritual director for the Institute. He continues to serve as a retreat leader and director to bishops, priests and sisters and seminarians and other religious leaders around the world.

BTP-LR16 – Day 11, pt. 2 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Day 11, Part 2 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity- Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor continue their discussion on Day 11 of St. Elizabeth of the Trinity’s Last Retreat and the profound invitation to deeper communion with God through silence, solitude, and surrender. Those who have progressed in the spiritual life may struggle with inner habits like brooding, rash judgment, or self-pity—tendencies that can only be healed through encountering the living Word in contemplative prayer. This form of prayer is not about methodical virtue-building but a heartfelt consent to God’s transformative presence, modeled after the Blessed Virgin Mary’s “yes.” In silence, the soul opens to the Father’s strength, which enables it to receive and keep the Word, Jesus Christ, who alone can pierce the heart and bring healing.

True Christian communion is not a personal triumph over life’s ambiguities but an abiding presence of God within them. God’s will, likened to the protective walls of a garden, offers space where the Holy Spirit can move freely, liberating the soul from being ruled by moods or impulses. As the soul dwells in this loving silence, it becomes capable of acting in divine freedom. St. Elizabeth calls the soul into the “eternal present”—a place of God’s abiding love and truth—where the Trinity makes its home. This transformation is not just for personal sanctity but also for the good of others, as one’s surrendered heart becomes a channel of divine life and grace.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How might God be inviting you to surrender control in your prayer life and trust more deeply in His presence?
In what areas of your heart do you find it difficult to let go of hurt, judgment, or fear?
Are you willing to enter into silence and solitude so that God can speak His Word more deeply within you?
How do you respond when God reveals your interior wounds—do you offer them to Him or turn away?
What does it mean for you personally to “keep the Word” and allow it to dwell in your daily life?
How have you experienced communion with God not as a personal achievement but as a gift received in love?
When you reflect on God’s will, do you see it as restrictive or as a path to freedom in the Spirit?
What prevents you from living in the “eternal present” where God’s love is always active and near?
How can your surrender to God’s transforming love become a source of blessing for others in your life?
Are you open to letting God’s Word strip away attachments so that you may grow in holiness and deeper intimacy with Him?

From “Last Retreat Day 11, pt 2” found in The Complete Works vol 1:

28. But it is not enough just to listen to this word, we must keep it! 164 And it is in keeping it that the soul will be “sanctified in the truth,” and that is the desire of the Master: “Sanctify them in the truth, your word is truth.” 165 To the one who keeps His word has He not made this promise: “My Father will love him and we will come to him and make our home in him”? 166 It is the whole Trinity who dwells in the soul that loves them in truth, that is, by keeping their word! And when this soul has realized its riches, all the natural or supernatural joys that can come to it from creatures or from God Himself are only an invitation to reenter into itself in order to enjoy the substantial Good that it possesses, which is nothing else than God Himself. And thus it has, St. John of the Cross says, a certain resemblance to the divine Being. 167

“Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” St. Paul tells me “that He works all things according to the counsel of His will,” 168 and my Master asks me also to pay Him homage in this regard: “to do all things according to the counsel of His will.” Never to let myself be ruled by impressions, by the first impulses of nature, but to let the will gain self-mastery. . . . And for this will to be free, it must be, in the expression of a pious writer, “enclosed in God’s will.” 169 Then I will be “moved by His Spirit,” 170 as St. Paul says. I will do only what is divine, only what is eternal, and, like my Unchanging One, I will live even here below in an eternal present.

Elizabeth of the Trinity (2014-07-24). Elizabeth of the Trinity Complete Works, Volume I: I Have Found God, General Introduction and Major Spiritual Writings (Kindle Locations 3419-3435). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.

This the text we are using to discuss “Heaven in Faith” you can find it here and order from the Carmelite Sisters

We would like to thank Miriam Gutierrez for providing “the voice” of St. Elizabeth for this series

For other episodes in the series visit the Discerning Hearts page for Dr. Anthony Lilles

Anthony Lilles, S.T.D., has served the Church and assisted in the formation of clergy and seminarians since 1994. Before coming to St. Patrick’s, he served at seminaries and houses of formation in the Archdiocese of Denver and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. The son of a California farmer, married with young adult children, holds a B.A. in theology from the Franciscan University of Steubenville with both the ecclesiastical licentiate and doctorate in spiritual theology from the Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas in Rome (the Angelicum). An expert in the writings of St. Elizabeth of the Trinity and the Carmelite Doctors of the Church, he co-founded the Avila Institute for Spiritual Formation and the High Calling Program for priestly vocations. He also founded the John Paul II Center for Contemplative Culture, which hosts symposiums, retreats, and conferences. In addition to his publications, he blogs at www.beginningtopray.com .

Conference 8 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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Conference 8 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher O.M.V.

Fr. Timothy Gallagher explores “third mode” discernment as taught by St. Ignatius of Loyola. This method involves a careful, prayerful evaluation of the advantages and disadvantages of two good options, always oriented toward God’s greater glory. Fr. Gallagher walks listeners through a structured approach that includes gathering relevant information, evaluating options rationally, and seeking confirmation through prayer. He shares Patrick’s journey of discernment regarding a full-time prison ministry role and Matthew’s reflection on whether to remain in his diaconal assignment—both examples illustrate the clarity and peace that come when discernment is approached with spiritual maturity, freedom of heart, and prayerful attentiveness.

Fr. Gallagher also outlines a complementary method from St. Ignatius involving three imaginative “tests”: advising a stranger in the same situation, considering what decision one would prefer at the end of life, and reflecting on one’s choice from the perspective of the Last Judgment. These exercises aim to bring greater objectivity and insight.

You can find various handouts spoken of by Fr. Gallagher in the links below:

Handout 1: https://www.discerninghearts.com/PDF/Discerning_the_Will_of_God-DISCERNING_HEARTS.pdf
Handout 2: https://www.discerninghearts.com/PDF/Text-of-St-Ignatius-SpirEx,175-188.pdf

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

Have I truly sought to align my desires with God’s greater glory in the decision I face?
Am I spiritually free enough to accept either option with equal openness before beginning discernment?
Have I gathered all relevant and necessary information to make a well-informed choice?
Do I regularly bring my discernment process into prayer, especially before the Blessed Sacrament?
Have I sought wise spiritual counsel to guide me through this discernment?
When listing advantages and disadvantages, am I focusing on how each option may serve God rather than myself?
Am I resisting choices rooted in self-interest, status, or comfort rather than in love for God?
Do I experience interior peace or clarity as I lean toward one option over another?
If I were advising a stranger in my exact situation, what would I counsel them to do for God’s glory?

For more episodes from Discerning The Will of God conference talks visit here.

Did you know that Fr. Timothy Gallagher has 13 different podcast series on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts?

Visit here to discover more Fr. Gallagher podcasts!

SFTH-6 – The Gift of Sisters – Stories from the Heart with Msgr. John Esseff – Discerning Hearts Podcasts

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Episode Six – The Gift of Sisters – Stories from the Heart with Msgr. John Esseff

Msgr. John Esseff warmly recounts memories of his two sisters, Marlene and MayAnn, reflecting on the deep familial bonds that shaped his life and priesthood. He shares vivid childhood stories, such as witnessing Marlene’s birth, their mischievous adventures, and Marlene’s loyal companionship with her brothers. Marlene was a trusted confidante and a source of joy and nurturing within the family. He also recounts MayAnn’s tender heart and spiritual maturity, culminating in her self-offering to God when her brother faced a life-threatening illness. Her acceptance of her own terminal illness became a profound moment of grace and sacrifice within the family.

Through these recollections, Msgr. Esseff reflects on how the presence of his sisters enriched his understanding of human relationships and prepared him to encounter women and men in his ministry with deeper compassion and respect. This familial experience helped shape his pastoral heart, particularly in his work with prisoners, where he learned to view each person as a true brother or sister in Christ.

Reflection Questions

How have my relationships with family members shaped my understanding of God’s love?
In what ways do I recognize the dignity and unique gifts of women in my life and in the Church?
How can I cultivate greater trust and loyalty within my own family or community?
What does it mean for me to view others—especially the marginalized—as true brothers and sisters in Christ?
How do I live out the Gospel call to sacrifice for the good of others?
What lessons about complementarity between men and women can I draw from my personal experience?
How might I better integrate the tenderness and nurturing qualities of love into my spiritual life?
In what ways am I called to offer compassion and presence to those who are suffering or facing death?
How has my family experience prepared me for my mission within the Body of Christ?
What practical steps can I take to strengthen the bonds of love and mutual respect in my relationships today?

About the Series

In this deeply personal and spiritually rich podcast series, Msgr. John Esseff—renowned retreat master, confessor, and spiritual director—shares intimate stories of his remarkable life. Having encountered some of the most beloved and influential figures of the modern Church, including St. Teresa of Calcutta, St. Padre Pio, Pope St. John Paul II, and many others, Msgr. Esseff offers listeners a living memory of the Church’s heart in the 20th and 21st centuries. This series also explores his missionary work with the poor, his years of service through the Pontifical Missions, and the profound lessons drawn from hidden saints and everyday holiness.

St. Anthony of Padua – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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St. Anthony of Padua – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson

Born: August 15, 1195, Lisbon, Portugal
Died: June 13, 1231, Padua, Italy
Buried: Basilica of Saint Anthony of Padua, Padua, Italy
Parents: Vicente Martins , Teresa Pais Taveira

Dr. Matthew Bunson discusses with Kris McGregor the life and legacy of St. Anthony of Padua. They explore his widespread veneration and many patronages, emphasizing that although many know him for his aid in finding lost items, his theological contributions are equally significant. Anthony was born in Lisbon, Portugal, not Italy, and his birth name was Fernando Martins. Initially an Augustinian, he later joined the Franciscans, inspired by the martyrdom of five Franciscan friars in Morocco.

His theological brilliance and dedication to a life of prayer led to his significant role within the Franciscan order. Known for his powerful preaching and conversion of heretics, Anthony was also a spiritual director and confessor. His sermons, deeply rooted in scripture and theological interpretation, earned him the title of Doctor of the Church. Despite his early death at 35, Anthony’s legacy endures through his teachings and miracles, including the famous story of preaching to the fish.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

Understanding Anthony’s Legacy: How does learning about St. Anthony’s theological contributions and not just his popular image deepen your appreciation of his role in the Church?
Recognizing True Patronage: What does St. Anthony’s extensive list of patronages tell us about his impact on various aspects of life and faith?
The Call to Religious Life: How did St. Anthony’s journey from an Augustinian to a Franciscan inspire you to consider the different paths one might take in following God’s call?
Impact of Martyrdom: How does the martyrdom of the five Franciscan friars in Morocco reflect on the sacrifice and commitment required in religious life?
The Power of Preaching: In what ways can St. Anthony’s dedication to preaching and his ability to convert heretics inspire you in your own faith journey and evangelization efforts?
Encounter with St. Francis: What can we learn from St. Anthony’s transformative encounter with St. Francis about the importance of mentorship and guidance in spiritual growth?
Balancing Knowledge and Humility: How did St. Anthony’s ability to balance profound theological knowledge with humility and simplicity serve as a model for contemporary faith practice?
Theological Legacy: How does understanding the theological traditions established by St. Anthony within the Franciscan Order influence your view of the Order’s teachings and practices?
Spiritual Teachings: How can St. Anthony’s method of interpreting scripture using the four senses (literal, allegorical, moral, anagogical) enhance your personal scripture study and reflection?
Miracles and Holiness: What lessons can be drawn from the stories of St. Anthony’s miracles, such as preaching to the fish and his incorrupt tongue, about the nature of sanctity and divine approval?
Enduring Influence: How does reflecting on St. Anthony’s enduring influence, despite his early death, inspire you to consider the lasting impact of a life devoted to faith and service?

For more on St. Anthony of Padua and his teachings

From Vatican.va, an excerpt from the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI :

From the General Audience on St. Anthony of Padua

“With his outstanding gifts of intelligence, balance, apostolic zeal and, primarily, mystic fervour, Anthony contributed significantly to the development of Franciscan spirituality.

In St Anthony’s teaching on prayer we perceive one of the specific traits of the Franciscan theology that he founded: namely the role assigned to divine love which enters into the sphere of the affections, of the will and of the heart, and which is also the source from which flows a spiritual knowledge that surpasses all other knowledge. In fact, it is in loving that we come to know.

Anthony writes further: “Charity is the soul of faith, it gives it life; without love, faith dies” (Sermones Dominicales et Festivi II, Messagero, Padua 1979, p. 37).

It is only the prayerful soul that can progress in spiritual life: this is the privileged object of St Anthony’s preaching. He is thoroughly familiar with the shortcomings of human nature, with our tendency to lapse into sin, which is why he continuously urges us to fight the inclination to avidity, pride and impurity; instead of practising the virtues of poverty and generosity, of humility and obedience, of chastity and of purity. At the beginning of the 13th century, in the context of the rebirth of the city and the flourishing of trade, the number of people who were insensitive to the needs of the poor increased. This is why on various occasions Anthony invites the faithful to think of the true riches, those of the heart, which make people good and merciful and permit them to lay up treasure in Heaven. “O rich people”, he urged them, “befriend… the poor, welcome them into your homes: it will subsequently be they who receive you in the eternal tabernacles in which is the beauty of peace, the confidence of security and the opulent tranquillity of eternal satiety” (ibid., p. 29).

Anthony, in the school of Francis, always put Christ at the centre of his life and thinking, of his action and of his preaching. This is another characteristic feature of Franciscan theology: Christocentrism. Franciscan theology willingly contemplates and invites others to contemplate the mysteries of the Lord’s humanity, the man Jesus, and in a special way the mystery of the Nativity: God who made himself a Child and gave himself into our hands, a mystery that gives rise to sentiments of love and gratitude for divine goodness.

For more visit Vatican.va

For more from Dr. Matthew Bunson, check out his Discerning Hearts page.

Dr. Matthew E. Bunson is a Register senior editor and a senior contributor to EWTN News. For the past 20 years, he has been active in the area of Catholic social communications and education, including writing, editing, and teaching on a variety of topics related to Church history, the papacy, the saints and Catholic culture. He is faculty chair at Catholic Distance University, a senior fellow of the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, and the author or co-author of over 50 books including The Encyclopedia of Catholic History, The Pope Encyclopedia, We Have a Pope! Benedict XVI, The Saints Encyclopedia and best-selling biographies of St. Damien of Molokai and St. Kateri Tekakwitha.

Ep 6 – The 8th Shewing – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 6: The Eighth Shewing — The Suffering Face of Love

Summary:

In Episode 6, In this powerful episode, we enter the Eighth Revelation of Julian of Norwich—a devastating yet holy vision of Christ’s dying. Julian beholds the gradual drying of Christ’s body, a slow agony revealing the depths of divine love. She reflects on His thirst—both physical and spiritual—and joins in His suffering through a profound union of compassion. Drawing on Isaiah, the Gospel of John, the Catechism, and the witness of mystics like St. Bridget and St. Teresa of Calcutta, this episode explores the mystery of redemptive suffering. Julian’s witness offers not only theological depth but an invitation to gaze upon the Crucified with love and trust.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 6:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XVI-XXI, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).

The Eighth Shewing —The Suffering Face of Love

“I saw His sweet face as it were dry and bloodless with pale dying. And later, more pale, dead, languoring; and then turned more dead unto blue; and then more brown-blue, as the flesh turned more deeply dead…” (Ch. 16)

“This long pining seemed to me as if He had been seven nights dead, dying, at the point of outpassing away, suffering the last pain. And when I said it seemed to me as if He had been seven night dead, it meaneth that the sweet body was so discoloured, so dry, so shrunken, so deathly, and so piteous, as if He had been seven night dead, continually dying. And methought the drying of Christ’s flesh was the most pain, and the last, of His Passion.” (Ch. 16)

“I Thirst” and the Drying of Love

“AND in this dying was brought to my mind the words of Christ: I thirst.
For I saw in Christ a double thirst: one bodily; another spiritual, the which I shall speak of in the Thirty-first Chapter.” (Ch. 17)

“I saw four manner of dryings: the first was bloodlessness; the second was pain following after; the third, hanging up in the air, as men hang a cloth to dry; the fourth, that the bodily Kind asked liquid and there was no manner of comfort ministered to Him in all His woe and distress. Ah! hard and grievous was his pain, but much more hard and grievous it was when the moisture failed and began to dry thus, shrivelling.” (Ch. 17)

“These were the pains that shewed in the blessed head: the first wrought to the dying, while it had moisture; and that other, slow, with shrinking drying, [and] with blowing of the wind from without, that dried and pained Him with cold more than mine heart can think.”(Ch. 17)

“I thought: Is any pain like this? And I was answered in my reason: Hell is another pain: for there is despair. But of all pains that lead to salvation this is the most pain, to see thy Love suffer. How might any pain be more to me than to see Him that is all my life, all my bliss, and all my joy, suffer? Here felt I soothfastly that I loved Christ so much above myself that there was no pain that might be suffered like to that sorrow that I had to [see] Him in pain.”(Ch. 17)

The Wound in the Side and the Opening of the Heart

“And after this, a wond [wound] was shewed in His side, right as it was shewed afore: which He shewed unto me in the same manner as I saw afore, and therewith He brought to mind the dearworthy blood and water which He suffered to be shed out of that same side. … And well I wist that it was He that shewed it. … And in the same shewing suddenly the Trinity filled my heart full of the greatest joy; and I understood that it shall be so in Heaven without end to all that shall come there.” (Ch. 18)

A Mother’s Compassion

“HERE I saw a part of the compassion of our Lady, Saint Mary: for Christ and she were so oned in love that the greatness of her loving was cause of the greatness of her pain. For in this [Shewing] I saw a Substance of Nature’s Love, continued by Grace, that creatures have to Him: which Kind Love was most fully shewed in His sweet Mother, and overpassing; for so much as she loved Him more than all other, her pains passed all other. For ever the higher, the mightier, the sweeter that the love be, the more sorrow it is to the lover to see that body in pain that is loved.” (Ch. 19)

“Here saw I a great oneing betwixt Christ and us, to mine understanding: for when He was in pain, we were in pain.
And all creatures that might suffer pain, suffered with Him: that is to say, all creatures that God hath made to our service. The firmament, the earth, failed for sorrow in their Nature in the time of Christ’s dying. For it belongeth naturally to their property to know Him for their God, in whom all their virtue standeth: when He failed, then behoved it needs to them, because of kindness [between them], to fail with Him, as much as they might, for sorrow of His pains.” (Ch. 19)

Choosing Christ as Heaven

“Thus was I learned to choose Jesus for my Heaven, whom I saw only in pain at that time.”(Ch 19)

“Then had I a proffer in my reason, as if it had been friendly said to me: Look up to Heaven to His Father. And then saw I well, with the faith that I felt, that there was nothing betwixt the Cross and Heaven that might have harmed me… I answered inwardly with all the might of my soul, and said: Nay; I may not: for Thou art my Heaven. For I would liever have been in that pain till Doomsday than to come to Heaven otherwise than by Him.” (Ch 19)

“The outward part is our deadly fleshhood, which is now in pain and woe, and shall be, in this life: whereof I felt much in this time; and that part it was that repented. The inward part is an high, blissful life, which is all in peace and in love: and this was more inwardly felt; and this part is [that] in which mightily, wisely and with steadfast will I chose Jesus to my Heaven.”(Ch 19)

The Measure of Divine Love

“And for every man’s sin that shall be saved He suffered: and every man’s sorrow and desolation He saw, and sorrowed for Kindness and love. (For in as much as our Lady sorrowed for His pains, in so much He suffered sorrow for her sorrow;—and more, in as greatly as the sweet manhood of Him was worthier in Kind.) For as long as He was passible He suffered for us and sorrowed for us; and now He is uprisen and no more passible, yet He suffereth with us.”(Ch 20)

“And I, beholding all this by His grace, saw that the Love of Him was so strong which He hath to our soul that willingly He chose it with great desire, and mildly He suffered it with well-pleasing.”(Ch 20)

“For the soul that beholdeth it thus, when it is touched by grace, it shall verily see that the pains of Christ’s Passion pass all pains: [all pains] that is to say, which shall be turned into everlasting, o’erpassing joys by the virtue of Christ’s Passion.”(Ch 20)

The Promise of Joy

“It is God’s will, as to mine understanding, that we have Three Manners of Beholding His blessed Passion. The First is: the hard Pain that He suffered,—[beholding it] with contrition and compassion.”(Ch 21)

“And I looked for the departing with all my might, and thought to have seen the body all dead; but I saw Him not so. And right in the same time that methought, by the seeming, the life might no longer last… suddenly (I beholding in the same Cross), He changed [the look of] His blessed Countenance. The changing of His blessed Countenance changed mine, and I was as glad and merry as it was possible. Then brought our Lord merrily to my mind: Where is now any point of the pain, or of thy grief? And I was full merry.”(Ch 21)

“And I understood that we be now, in our Lord’s meaning, in His Cross with Him in His pains and His Passion, dying; and we, willingly abiding in the same Cross with His help and His grace unto the last point, suddenly He shall change His Cheer to us, and we shall be with Him in Heaven.”(Ch 21)

“The harder our pains have been with Him in His Cross, the more shall our worship be with Him in His Kingdom.”Ch 21)

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

(Isaiah 53:3–4, RSV)

“He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief… he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows”

(Matthew John 19:34, RSV)

“But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water”

(Romans 8:19, 22, RSV)

“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God… For we know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now”

(Romans 8:18, RSV)

“I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us”

(Isaiah 53:3–4, RSV)

“He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Faith in God the Father Almighty can be put to the test by the experience of evil and suffering. God can sometimes seem to be absent and incapable of stopping evil. But in the most mysterious way God the Father has revealed his almighty power in the voluntary humiliation and Resurrection of his Son, by which he conquered evil. Christ crucified is thus “the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.”¹¹¹ It is in Christ’s Resurrection and exaltation that the Father has shown forth “the immeasurable greatness of his power in us who believe” (CCC 272)

“The Church was born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the cross. ‘The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.’” (CCC 766)

“Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the Cross, where she stood, in keeping with the divine plan… enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering.” (CCC 964)

“By his death, Christ liberates us from sin; by his Resurrection, he opens for us the way to a new life. This new life is above all justification… and it brings about filial adoption so that men become Christ’s brethren” (CCC 654).

“The desire for happiness is of divine origin: God has placed it in the human heart in order to draw man to himself, for he alone can fulfill it.” (CCC 1718)

“The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the ‘one mediator between God and men’ (1 Tim 2:5). But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery is offered to all men.” (CCC 618)

“By his passion and death on the cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion.” (CCC 1505)

Reflection Questions for Prayer

What stirs in your heart as you gaze upon the suffering face of Christ?
How does the image of Christ thirsting—physically and spiritually—deepen your understanding of His love?
In what ways might Christ be inviting you to remain with Him at the Cross, rather than look away?

Closing Prayer (inspired by the Eighth Shewing)

Lord Jesus Christ,
You chose the Cross out of love for every soul.
In Your suffering face, we see the depth of divine mercy.
In Your thirst, we hear the longing of Your Sacred Heart.

You were pierced, dried, and drained for our healing.
You remained, even unto death, so that we would never be alone.
You sorrowed for us—and even now, You suffer with us.

Give us the grace to remain near to You,
To see You not with fear, but with reverent love.
Let us not look away from Your Passion,
But receive it as the saving gift it is.

May Your wounds be our refuge,
Your thirst our call to prayer,
Your death our doorway to joy.

Amen.

BTP-LR15 – Day 11, pt. 1 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Day 11, Part 1 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity- Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore Day 11 of The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity. The conversation focuses on developing a deep relationship with God the Father, especially for those who may have struggled with their earthly paternal relationships. St. Elizabeth’s own early loss of her father shaped her yearning for the Heavenly Father and how her writings invite us to rediscover this divine relationship. Life’s challenges and imperfections of earthly fathers point us toward the true Father, who grants us identity, freedom, and a mission oriented toward eternal life. The practice of forgiving and letting go of past wounds becomes part of this transformative journey.

Entering spiritual solitude and silence can be daunting for many. St. Elizabeth describes how God leads the soul into an “immense infinite solitude,” where one becomes receptive to His word. Letting go of attachments and internal obstacles by welcoming the Word of God into one’s heart involves not just hearing but living out the Word, allowing it to strip away deeper resistances like resentment or self-pity. In this surrender, the soul is gradually sanctified, making space for the indwelling presence of the Trinity.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

Am I aware of any consistent interior attraction drawing me toward a particular choice or vocation?
Do I notice moments of spiritual consolation that invite me into deeper relationship with God through certain life options?
Have I allowed sufficient time for these movements of the heart to deepen and clarify over time?
Am I cultivating an inner openness to God’s will, truly ready to follow whatever He desires for me?
Am I regularly using spiritual practices—such as Scripture, the Eucharist, silence, and the Examen—to help discern God’s invitations?
Have I sought wise spiritual counsel to accompany me in my discernment process?
If clarity has not emerged through consolation, am I prepared to thoughtfully weigh advantages and disadvantages in light of God’s glory?
Do I prayerfully consider how each possible choice may help make God more known and loved in the world?
Have I gathered all the relevant information I need to discern a choice responsibly and clearly?
Before making a decision, have I sincerely presented it to God in prayer, asking for guidance and confirmation?

From “Last Retreat Day 11, pt 1” found in The Complete Works vol 1:

27. “The Lord brought me into a spacious place, because He was gracious toward me. . . .” 159 The Creator, seeing the beautiful silence which reigns in His creature, and gazing on her wholly recollected in her interior solitude, is enamored of her beauty and leads her into this immense, infinite solitude, into this “spacious place” sung of by the prophet, which is nothing else but Himself: “I will enter into the depths of the power of God.” 160 Speaking through his prophet, the Lord said: “I will lead her into solitude and speak to her heart.” 161 The soul has entered into this vast solitude in which God will make Himself heard! “His word,” St. Paul says, “is living and active, and more penetrating than a two edged sword: extending even to the division of soul and spirit, even of joints and marrow.” 162 It is His word then that will directly achieve the work of stripping in the soul; for it has this particular characteristic, that it effects and creates what it intends, 163 provided however that the soul consents to let this be done.

Elizabeth of the Trinity (2014-07-24). Elizabeth of the Trinity Complete Works, Volume I: I Have Found God, General Introduction and Major Spiritual Writings (Kindle Locations 3408-3419). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.

This the text we are using to discuss “Heaven in Faith” you can find it here and order from the Carmelite Sisters

We would like to thank Miriam Gutierrez for providing “the voice” of St. Elizabeth for this series

For other episodes in the series visit the Discerning Hearts page for Dr. Anthony Lilles

Conference 7 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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Conference 7 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher O.M.V.

Fr. Timothy Gallagher explores the second and third modes of discernment in Ignatian spirituality and how a person might be drawn to a life choice through a process of interior movement. Using the story of a sister named “Jessica,” he illustrates how deep spiritual consolation can gently and consistently pull a person toward a particular vocation, in this case religious life. Such a process often unfolds gradually over time, rather than through a single decisive moment. This path involves both an increasing clarity of heart and an alignment with God’s invitations, marked by joy, peace, and a growing desire for a closer relationship with God.

The third mode of discernment comes into play when the first two do not yield sufficient clarity. Here, one prayerfully weighs the advantages and disadvantages of each option in light of how they would serve God’s glory and foster spiritual growth. Fr. Gallagher draws on the example of St. Ignatius’ own discernment regarding the degree of poverty to embrace in the Society of Jesus, showing how careful reflection, prayer, and consultation lead to a sound decision. It’s important to approach this process with inner freedom, a disposition of openness to God’s will, and attentiveness to the movements of the heart, all supported by wise counsel and spiritual practices.

You can find various handouts spoken of by Fr. Gallagher in the links below:

Handout 1: https://www.discerninghearts.com/PDF/Discerning_the_Will_of_God-DISCERNING_HEARTS.pdf
Handout 2: https://www.discerninghearts.com/PDF/Text-of-St-Ignatius-SpirEx,175-188.pdf

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

Am I aware of any consistent interior attraction drawing me toward a particular choice or vocation?
Do I notice moments of spiritual consolation that invite me into deeper relationship with God through certain life options?
Have I allowed sufficient time for these movements of the heart to deepen and clarify over time?
Am I cultivating an inner openness to God’s will, truly ready to follow whatever He desires for me?
Am I regularly using spiritual practices—such as Scripture, the Eucharist, silence, and the Examen—to help discern God’s invitations?
Have I sought wise spiritual counsel to accompany me in my discernment process?
If clarity has not emerged through consolation, am I prepared to thoughtfully weigh advantages and disadvantages in light of God’s glory?
Do I prayerfully consider how each possible choice may help make God more known and loved in the world?
Have I gathered all the relevant information I need to discern a choice responsibly and clearly?
Before making a decision, have I sincerely presented it to God in prayer, asking for guidance and confirmation?

For more episodes from Discerning The Will of God conference talks visit here.

Did you know that Fr. Timothy Gallagher has 13 different podcast series on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts?

Visit here to discover more Fr. Gallagher podcasts!

St. Ephrem of Syria – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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St. Ephrem of Syria – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson

Born: 306 AD, Nisibis, Turkey
Died: June 9, 373 AD, Edessa, Turkey

Dr. Matthew Bunson and Kris McGregor discuss the life and contributions of St. Ephraim, who was declared a Doctor of the Church in 1920 by Pope Benedict XV. This recognition was part of an effort to appreciate the Eastern churches and celebrate their spiritual and ecclesiastical heritage. St. Ephraim, known as the “Harp of the Holy Spirit,” is notable for his hymns and poetry, which served both as theological teaching tools and defenses against heresies such as Arianism.

St. Ephraim was born around 306 in what is now modern Turkey and died in 373. He was a prolific writer, composing up to 3 million lines of poetry and 400 hymns. His hymns focused on themes like creation, the Eucharist, and Mary, and were used to counter heretical teachings through memorable and orthodox lyrics. His work established a tradition of integrating hymns and poetry into Christian liturgy, deeply influencing subsequent church practices.

Despite not being ordained a priest, Ephraim had a significant impact as a deacon, poet, and teacher. His practical life included serving his community during famines and plagues, and his hymns and writings provided deep theological insights. Pope Benedict XVI highlighted Ephraim’s ability to combine poetry and theology, making his teachings a part of the Christian prayer life.

The importance of liturgical music that is both beautiful and theologically rich, following Ephraim’s model. It suggests that modern hymn composers should strive to create music that is not only pleasant but also profound in its theological content. St. Ephraim’s life and work serve as a powerful example for today’s Christians to use their gifts in service to God and the church.

For more on St. Ephrem and his teachings

St. Ephraim the Syrian (306-373)
Nisibene Hymns – Miscellaneous Hymns
On the Nativity of Christ in the Flesh
For the Feast of the Epiphany
On the Faith (“The Pearl”)
On Our Lord, On Admonition and Repentance
On the Sinful Woman

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

St. Ephraim’s Influence: How does St. Ephraim’s integration of poetry and theology inspire you to use your unique talents in service to God and the Church?
Liturgical Importance: Why is it essential for hymns and liturgical music to be both beautiful and theologically rich?
Serving with Humility: In what ways can you follow St. Ephraim’s example of humility and service in your own community?
Facing Heresies: How can we use creative arts today to defend and teach the faith, as St. Ephraim did against Arianism?
Legacy of Faith: What can we learn from St. Ephraim’s dedication to catechizing and deepening the faith of his community, and how can we apply this in contemporary settings?
Multifaceted Contributions: Reflect on the significance of St. Ephraim’s contributions as a poet, teacher, and deacon. How can you utilize all your gifts to serve God?
The Role of Hymns: Consider the role of hymns in your personal spiritual life. How do they help you deepen your faith and understanding of God?
Evangelization through Music: How can we better integrate the theological depth of hymns in our efforts towards the new evangelization?
Historical Context: Reflect on the historical context of St. Ephraim’s life. How did the challenges he faced shape his ministry, and what lessons can we draw from this for our own times?
Living the Faith: How does St. Ephraim’s commitment to living out his faith through service and hymnody challenge you to embody your beliefs in everyday actions?

From Vatican.va, an excerpt from the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI General Audience 2007:

“The figure of Ephrem is still absolutely timely for the life of the various Christian Churches. We discover him in the first place as a theologian who reflects poetically, on the basis of Holy Scripture, on the mystery of man’s redemption brought about by Christ, the Word of God incarnate. His is a theological reflection expressed in images and symbols taken from nature, daily life and the Bible. Ephrem gives his poetry and liturgical hymns a didactic and catechetical character: they are theological hymns yet at the same time suitable for recitation or liturgical song. On the occasion of liturgical feasts, Ephrem made use of these hymns to spread Church doctrine. Time has proven them to be an extremely effective catechetical instrument for the Christian community.

Ephrem’s reflection on the theme of God the Creator is important: nothing in creation is isolated and the world, next to Sacred Scripture, is a Bible of God. By using his freedom wrongly, man upsets the cosmic order. The role of women was important to Ephrem. The way he spoke of them was always inspired with sensitivity and respect: the dwelling place of Jesus in Mary’s womb greatly increased women’s dignity. Ephrem held that just as there is no Redemption without Jesus, there is no Incarnation without Mary. The divine and human dimensions of the mystery of our redemption can already be found in Ephrem’s texts; poetically and with fundamentally scriptural images, he anticipated the theological background and in some way the very language of the great Christological definitions of the fifth-century Councils.

Ephrem, honoured by Christian tradition with the title “Harp of the Holy Spirit”, remained a deacon of the Church throughout his life. It was a crucial and emblematic decision: he was a deacon, a servant, in his liturgical ministry, and more radically, in his love for Christ, whose praises he sang in an unparalleled way, and also in his love for his brethren, whom he introduced with rare skill to the knowledge of divine Revelation.”