The Annunciation – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff
Msgr. John Esseff reflects on the meaning of the Ascension and Pentecost, urging us to move beyond a childish, distant view of heaven. Christ’s ascension was not a departure to a far-off place, but a deeper entry into our lives through the Holy Spirit. Jesus remains present in the world through the Church and within each baptized person. Heaven is not “up there,” but within; the Trinity dwells in the heart of the faithful. The Church, then, is not merely an institution but the very body of Christ alive in the world, called to bring God’s presence into every place and relationship through love.
Msgr. Esseff further addresses the difficulty of loving those who have deeply hurt us, explaining that this is humanly impossible without Christ. It is only through union with Jesus, who lives within us, that true forgiveness and love become possible. He tells personal stories, including his mother’s near-death experience and witness to divine love, illustrating how we are called to manifest this divine presence through acts of kindness, forgiveness, and mercy. The world remains in darkness when we fail to reveal Christ within us. Each person is a tabernacle of God’s presence, and our mission is to let that divine light shine through our daily lives, even in the most painful or ordinary moments.
Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions
How does understanding the Ascension as Christ entering into our hearts, rather than leaving for a distant place, change your view of heaven?
In what ways do you experience the presence of the Trinity within you through prayer and daily life?
How do you live out Jesus’ words, “I am with you always,” in your actions and relationships?
What does it mean for you personally that you are a “tabernacle” of God’s presence in the world?
Are there areas in your life where you struggle to let Christ’s love shine through you?
How can you rely more on Jesus within you when faced with people who are difficult to love?
Have you reflected on how gossip or unkind speech may obscure Christ’s presence in you?
What concrete steps can you take to make the kingdom of God more visible in your daily interactions?
Who in your life might be waiting to encounter Christ through your forgiveness or compassion?
How are you responding to Christ’s commission to “make disciples of all nations” in your own context?
Msgr. John A. Esseff is a Roman Catholic priest in the Diocese of Scranton. Msgr. Esseff served as a retreat director and confessor to St. Teresa of Calcutta. He continues to offer direction and retreats for the Sisters of the Missionaries of Charity worldwide. Msgr. Esseff encountered St. Padre Pio, who would become a spiritual father to him. He has lived in areas around the world, serving in the Pontifical Missions, a Catholic organization established by St. Pope John Paul II to bring the Good News to the world, especially to the poor. Msgr. Esseff assisted the founders of the Institute for Priestly Formation and continues to serve as a spiritual director for the Institute. He continues to serve as a retreat leader and director to bishops, priests, sisters, seminarians, and other religious leaders worldwide.
Episode Five – Fighting the Good Fight – Stories from the Heart with Msgr. John Esseff
Msgr. John Esseff reflects on his formative years growing up in a Lebanese Maronite Catholic family. He shares vivid stories of his early friendships formed around the church and school, highlighting how closely tied family, faith, and community life were in his upbringing. He recounts his experiences serving as an altar boy alongside his brother, being mentored by his father, and how boxing became both a defense mechanism and a metaphor for dealing with conflict. His early encounters with schoolyard hostility and physical altercations shaped his understanding of strength and protection, which he later came to see in a new light as he matured in his priestly identity.
Later in life, Msgr. Esseff realized that the combative instincts he was taught—though meant to protect—also delayed deeper human connections. He candidly discusses how those early lessons in self-defense influenced his relationships, even into seminary. A profound spiritual awakening led him to understand that the priesthood isn’t just a role but a call to be Christ to others. He expresses regret for the harm caused by a hardened attitude and explores how true formation comes not just through education but through learning to love as Christ does.
Reflection Questions
How has your upbringing influenced the way you respond to conflict and adversity today?
In what ways do you carry unresolved fear or anger from childhood into your adult relationships?
How do you understand the call to “be Christ” rather than just “do good” as a Christian?
Have you ever used your strengths or gifts in a way that may have hurt rather than healed others?
What does it mean to you to protect someone—not just physically, but spiritually and emotionally?
Are there relationships from your past that were delayed or damaged by pride or fear, and how might God be inviting you to revisit them?
How can you teach the children in your life not only how to defend themselves, but how to build bridges of friendship and understanding?
What experiences in your life have dulled or distorted your understanding of your baptismal identity?
How do you see St. Joseph as a model for guiding others with both strength and tenderness?
In what areas of your spiritual life do you still find yourself tempted to “fight back” instead of respond with love?
About the Series
In this deeply personal and spiritually rich podcast series, Msgr. John Esseff—renowned retreat master, confessor, and spiritual director—shares intimate stories of his remarkable life. Having encountered some of the most beloved and influential figures of the modern Church, including St. Teresa of Calcutta, St. Padre Pio, Pope St. John Paul II, and many others, Msgr. Esseff offers listeners a living memory of the Church’s heart in the 20th and 21st centuries. This series also explores his missionary work with the poor, his years of service through the Pontifical Missions, and the profound lessons drawn from hidden saints and everyday holiness.
All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor
Episode 5: The Sixth and Seventh Shewings — Divine Reward and the Mystery of Consolation
Summary:
In Episode 5, we explore Julian of Norwich’s Sixth and Seventh Shewings, where she is shown the eternal joy that awaits those who serve God in love, and the mysterious rhythm of spiritual consolation and desolation. Julian reveals that no act of agape love is forgotten, and even our hidden sacrifices are honored by the Lord with lasting joy. She also experiences the rise and fall of spiritual feelings, learning that God remains constant in both peace and pain. Her revelations echo truths later taught by St. Ignatius of Loyola: that spiritual desolation, while permitted, is never without purpose. Through it all, Julian teaches us to remain rooted in God’s unchanging love—trusting that His presence holds us through every joy and trial.
Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 5:
From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XIV-XV, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).
The Sixth Shewing — The Reward for Willing Service
“After this our good Lord said: I thank thee for thy travail, and especially for thy youth. And in this [Shewing] mine understanding was lifted up into Heaven where I saw our Lord as a lord in his own house, which hath called all his dearworthy servants and friends to a stately feast. Then I saw the Lord take no place in His own house, but I saw Him royally reign in His house, fulfilling it with joy and mirth, Himself endlessly to gladden and to solace His dearworthy friends, full homely and full courteously, with marvellous melody of endless love, in His own fair blessed Countenance. Which glorious Countenance of the Godhead fulfilleth the Heavens with joy and bliss.” (Ch. 14)
“God shewed three degrees of bliss that every soul shall have in Heaven that willingly hath served God in any degree in earth. The first is the worshipful thanks of our Lord God that he shall receive when he is delivered of pain. This thanking is so high and so worshipful that the soul thinketh it filleth him though there were no more. For methought that all the pain and travail that might be suffered by all living men might not deserve the worshipful thanks that one man shall have that willingly hath served God. The second is that all the blessed creatures that are in Heaven shall see that worshipful thanking, and He maketh his service known to all that are in Heaven… The third is, that as new and as gladdening as it is received in that time, right so shall it last without end.” (Ch. 14)
“And I saw that homely and sweetly was this shewed, and that the age of every man shall be [made] known in Heaven, and [he] shall be rewarded for his willing service and for his time. And specially the age of them that willingly and freely offer their youth unto God, passingly is rewarded and wonderfully is thanked.
For I saw that whene’er what time a man or woman is truly turned to God,—for one day’s service and for his endless will he shall have all these three degrees of bliss. And the more the loving soul seeth this courtesy of God, the liefer he is to serve him all the days of his life.” (Ch. 14)
The Seventh Shewing — The Trial of Consolation and Desolation
“AND after this He shewed a sovereign ghostly pleasance in my soul. I was fulfilled with the everlasting sureness, mightily sustained without any painful dread. This feeling was so glad and so ghostly that I was in all peace and in rest, that there was nothing in earth that should have grieved me.
This lasted but a while, and I was turned and left to myself in heaviness, and weariness of my life, and irksomeness of myself, that scarcely I could have patience to live. There was no comfort nor none ease to me but faith, hope, and charity; and these I had in truth, but little in feeling.” (Ch. 15)
“And anon after this our blessed Lord gave me again the comfort and the rest in soul, in satisfying and sureness so blissful and so mighty that no dread, no sorrow, no pain bodily that might be suffered should have distressed me. And then the pain shewed again to my feeling, and then the joy and the pleasing, and now that one, and now that other, divers times—I suppose about twenty times. And in the time of joy I might have said with Saint Paul: Nothing shall dispart me from the charity of Christ; and in the pain I might have said with Peter: Lord, save me: I perish!” (Ch. 15)
The Seventh Shewing — Consolation and Desolation in One Love
“This Vision was shewed me, according to mine understanding, [for] that it is speedful to some souls to feel on this wise: sometime to be in comfort, and sometime to fail and to be left to themselves. God willeth that we know that He keepeth us even alike secure in woe and in weal. And for profit of man’s soul, a man is sometime left to himself; although sin is not always the cause: for in this time I sinned not wherefore I should be left to myself—for it was so sudden. Also I deserved not to have this blessed feeling. But freely our Lord giveth when He will; and suffereth us [to be] in woe sometime. And both is one love.” (Ch. 15)
“For it is God’s will that we hold us in comfort with all our might: for bliss is lasting without end, and pain is passing and shall be brought to nought for them that shall be saved. And therefore it is not God’s will that we follow the feelings of pain in sorrow and mourning for them, but that we suddenly pass over, and hold us in endless enjoyment.” (Ch. 15)
Scripture Featured
(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )
(Romans 8:35, RSV)
“Nothing shall separate me from the love of Christ.”
(Matthew 14:30, RSV)
“..he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.””
Catechism of the Catholic Church
“In the battle of prayer, we must face in ourselves and around us erroneous notions of prayer. Some people view prayer as a simple psychological activity, others as an effort of concentration to reach a mental void. Still others reduce prayer to ritual words and postures. Many Christians unconsciously regard prayer as an occupation that is incompatible with all the other things they have to do: they ‘don’t have the time.’ Those who seek God by prayer are quickly discouraged because they do not know that prayer comes also from the Holy Spirit and not from themselves alone.” (CCC 2726)
“Spiritual progress tends toward ever more intimate union with Christ. This union is called ‘mystical’ because it participates in the mystery of Christ through the sacraments… God calls us all to this intimate union with Him, even if the special graces or extraordinary signs of this mystical life are granted only to some” (CCC 2014).
“We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God… in every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere to the end” (CCC 1821).
“By His death, Christ liberates us from sin; by His Resurrection, He opens the way to new life” (CCC 654).
Reflection Questions for Prayer
Have I experienced spiritual consolation and desolation? How might I hold fast to Christ in both?
In what ways is God inviting me to offer my love—even in small, hidden ways?
When I feel discouraged or alone, can I still believe that God is holding me just as securely?
Closing Prayer (inspired by the Sixth and Seventh Shewings)
O Lord of unchanging love, In joy and in sorrow, You are near. You see the gifts we offer in secret— And You remember them with delight.
When we are weary, hold us. When we are restless, steady us. When we are afraid, remind us that You are still with us.
Wrap us in Your homely loving, Clothe us in the mercy that does not fade, And teach us to trust that Even now, in the shadows, You are leading all things into joy.
Day 10, Part 1 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity- Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles
Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore the spiritual insights of Day 10 from St. Elizabeth of the Trinity’s The Last Retreat and the command “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect,” which St. Elizabeth understands as a call to live in the eternal present—a mode of existence modeled on God the Father’s unchanging love and divine solitude. She describes this as a life of continual adoration, where one is stripped of self, free from distractions of both natural and spiritual attachments, and wholly oriented toward God. This solitude is not isolation, but a rich interior silence where the soul can remain attentive to God’s love, mirroring the Father’s own stillness and constancy.
Dr. Lilles explains how St. Elizabeth’s reflections draw attention to the Father’s unique, ungenerated nature—His eternal being from which the Son is begotten and the Spirit proceeds. The solitude she invites is not emotional withdrawal, but a purification that allows the soul to love without compromise. This life of contemplative prayer, rooted in the eternal now, is akin to martyrdom—a surrender to divine love in the face of evil and suffering.
Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions
How is God inviting me to live more fully in the eternal present, rooted in His love rather than in my circumstances?
In what ways can I embrace the solitude of the Father as a space of love and not isolation?
What attachments—natural or spiritual—may God be asking me to let go of so I can be more wholly His?
How does my daily prayer life reflect a desire to be stripped of self in order to adore God for who He is?
When faced with suffering or powerlessness, do I respond from a place of trust in God’s victory through love?
What does it mean for me personally to be “perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”?
How can I cultivate silence and interior stillness amid the noise of daily life?
In what areas of my life do I let circumstances determine my capacity to love rather than God’s presence?
Who in my life or in the world today models for me the quiet strength of love rooted in divine solitude?
How can I allow contemplative prayer to shape my response to injustice, conflict, or difficulty with peace and fidelity?
25. “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” 145 When my Master makes me understand these words in the depths of my soul, it seems to me that He is asking me to live like the Father “in an eternal present,” “with no before, no after,” but wholly in the unity of my being in this “eternal now.” 146 What is this present? This is what David tells me: “They will adore Him always because of Himself.”
147 This is the eternal present in which Laudem Gloriae must be established. But for her to be truly in this attitude of adoration, so that she can sing, “I will awake the dawn,” 148 she must also be able to say with St. Paul, “For love of Him I have forfeited everything”; 149 that is: because of Him, that I may adore Him always, I am “alone, set apart, stripped” of all things, both with regard to the natural as well as the supernatural gifts of God. For a soul that is not thus “destroyed and freed” 150 from self will of necessity be trivial and natural at certain moments, and that is not worthy of a daughter of God, a spouse of Christ, a temple of the Holy Spirit. To guard against this natural life the soul must be wholly vigilant in her faith151 with her gaze turned towards the Master. Then she “can walk,” as the royal prophet sings, “in the integrity of her heart within her house.” 152 Then she “will adore her God always because of Himself” and will live, like Him, in that eternal present where He lives…”
Elizabeth of the Trinity (2014-07-24). Elizabeth of the Trinity Complete Works, Volume I: I Have Found God, General Introduction and Major Spiritual Writings (Kindle Locations 3374-3391). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.
Anthony Lilles, S.T.D., has served the Church and assisted in the formation of clergy and seminarians since 1994. Before coming to St. Patrick’s, he served at seminaries and houses of formation in the Archdiocese of Denver and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. The son of a California farmer, married with young adult children, holds a B.A. in theology from the Franciscan University of Steubenville with both the ecclesiastical licentiate and doctorate in spiritual theology from the Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas in Rome (the Angelicum). An expert in the writings of St. Elizabeth of the Trinity and the Carmelite Doctors of the Church, he co-founded the Avila Institute for Spiritual Formation and the High Calling Program for priestly vocations. He also founded the John Paul II Center for Contemplative Culture, which hosts symposiums, retreats, and conferences. In addition to his publications, he blogs at www.beginningtopray.com .
Conference 4 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher O.M.V.
Fr. Timothy Gallagher continues his talk on St. Ignatius of Loyola’s framework for discerning God’s will. He focuses on key spiritual tools essential for discernment: the Eucharist, confession, and especially prayer with Scripture. Drawing from both Ignatius and the Second Vatican Council, he highlights how regular, personal engagement with Scripture deepens one’s spiritual life by strengthening faith, nourishing the soul, and fostering a lasting connection with Christ. This prayer should be intimate, rooted in love and desire to follow Jesus more closely. Methods like Ignatian meditation, imaginative contemplation, lectio divina, or the Rosary can help personalize this engagement. The time devoted to such prayer should be realistic and sustainable—whether it’s five or thirty minutes—because consistency matters more than intensity.
Fr. Gallagher also outlines the indispensable roles of silence and spiritual accompaniment. Drawing from Elijah’s encounter with God and Søren Kierkegaard’s insight on silence: genuine discernment requires interior quiet to hear God’s subtle guidance. Spiritual direction is equally crucial; sharing one’s interior movements with a wise, trustworthy guide clarifies and enriches the discernment journey. Fr. Gallagher shares how his own priestly vocation began with a simple but pivotal conversation with his parish priest. He then introduces Ignatian tools for reviewing spiritual experience—especially the review of prayer and the examen—to help one track God’s activity throughout the day. These practices, often enhanced by journaling, help individuals notice patterns, understand their spiritual movements, and bring clarity to their discernment.
You can find various handouts spoken of by Fr. Gallagher in the links below:
St. Bede the Venerable – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson
Born: 672 AD, Jarrow, United Kingdom
Died: May 26, 735 AD, Jarrow, United Kingdom
Nationality: English
Feast: 25 May (Western Churches); 27 May (Orthodox Church and the General Roman Calendar from 1899–1969)
Dr. Matthew Bunson and Kris McGregor discuss the life and legacy of the Venerable Bede, the only Doctor of the Church from England. Dr. Bunson highlights Bede’s contributions to theology, history, and learning during a time often mischaracterized as the Dark Ages. Bede is celebrated for his “Ecclesiastical History of the English People,” his biblical commentaries, and his role in developing the AD/BC dating system.
Elevated as a Doctor of the Church by Pope Leo XIII in 1899, Bede’s work symbolized the endurance and intellectual richness of the Catholic faith in the British Isles, even during periods of suppression. His life in the monastic communities of Northumbria was marked by relentless scholarship, teaching, and prayer, embodying the quiet dedication and intellectual vibrancy of monastic life.
Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions
The Legacy of Venerable Bede: How does Bede’s dedication to learning and teaching inspire your own approach to faith and education?
Historical Context and Faith: What can we learn from Bede’s ability to find faith and meaning in the historical events of his time?
Role of Monastic Life: How does Bede’s monastic lifestyle of prayer, study, and teaching reflect the values we should strive for in our own lives?
Contribution to Theology and History: In what ways do Bede’s theological and historical works enhance our understanding of the Catholic faith?
Endurance of Faith: How does Bede’s life demonstrate the endurance and resilience of the Catholic faith through times of adversity?
Integration of Faith and Reason: How does Bede’s integration of faith with scientific and historical knowledge challenge the modern perception of the relationship between faith and reason?
Significance of the Church in History: Why is it important to study the ecclesiastical history of the Church, as Bede did, to understand the development of Christian faith?
Quiet Dedication: How can Bede’s model of quiet, tireless dedication to the Church serve as a guide for our personal spiritual practices?
“By his way of creating theology, interweaving the Bible, liturgy and history, Bede has a timely message for the different “states of life”: a) for scholars (doctores ac doctrices) he recalls two essential tasks: to examine the marvels of the word of God in order to present them in an attractive form to the faithful; to explain the dogmatic truths, avoiding heretical complications and keeping to “Catholic simplicity”, with the attitude of the lowly and humble to whom God is pleased to reveal the mysteries of the Kingdom; b) pastors, for their part, must give priority to preaching, not only through verbal or hagiographic language but also by giving importance to icons, processions and pilgrimages. Bede recommends that they use the vulgate as he himself does, explaining the “Our Father” and the “Creed” in Northumbrian and continuing, until the last day of his life, his commentary on the Gospel of John in the vulgate; c) Bede recommends to consecrated people who devote themselves to the Divine Office, living in the joy of fraternal communion and progressing in the spiritual life by means of ascesis and contemplation that they attend to the apostolate no one possesses the Gospel for himself alone but must perceive it as a gift for others too both by collaborating with Bishops in pastoral activities of various kinds for the young Christian communities and by offering themselves for the evangelizing mission among the pagans, outside their own country, as “peregrini pro amore Dei”.
Making this viewpoint his own, in his commentary on the Song of Songs Bede presents the Synagogue and the Church as collaborators in the dissemination of God’s word. Christ the Bridegroom wants a hard-working Church, “weathered by the efforts of evangelization” there is a clear reference to the word in the Song of Songs (1: 5), where the bride says “Nigra sum sed formosa” (“I am very dark, but comely”) intent on tilling other fields or vineyards and in establishing among the new peoples “not a temporary hut but a permanent dwelling place”, in other words, intent on integrating the Gospel into their social fabric and cultural institutions. In this perspective the holy Doctor urges lay faithful to be diligent in religious instruction, imitating those “insatiable crowds of the Gospel who did not even allow the Apostles time to take a mouthful”. He teaches them how to pray ceaselessly, “reproducing in life what they celebrate in the liturgy”, offering all their actions as a spiritual sacrifice in union with Christ. He explains to parents that in their small domestic circle too they can exercise “the priestly office as pastors and guides”, giving their children a Christian upbringing. He also affirms that he knows many of the faithful (men and women, married and single) “capable of irreproachable conduct who, if appropriately guided, will be able every day to receive Eucharistic communion” (Epist. ad Ecgberctum, ed. Plummer, p. 419).
The fame of holiness and wisdom that Bede already enjoyed in his lifetime, earned him the title of “Venerable”. Pope Sergius I called him this when he wrote to his Abbot in 701 asking him to allow him to come to Rome temporarily to give advice on matters of universal interest. After his death, Bede’s writings were widely disseminated in his homeland and on the European continent. Bishop St Boniface, the great missionary of Germany, (d. 754), asked the Archbishop of York and the Abbot of Wearmouth several times to have some of his works transcribed and sent to him so that he and his companions might also enjoy the spiritual light that shone from them. A century later, Notker Balbulus, Abbot of Sankt Gallen (d. 912), noting the extraordinary influence of Bede, compared him to a new sun that God had caused to rise, not in the East but in the West, to illuminate the world. Apart from the rhetorical emphasis, it is a fact that with his works Bede made an effective contribution to building a Christian Europe in which the various peoples and cultures amalgamated with one another, thereby giving them a single physiognomy, inspired by the Christian faith. Let us pray that today too there may be figures of Bede’s stature, to keep the whole continent united; let us pray that we may all be willing to rediscover our common roots, in order to be builders of a profoundly human and authentically Christian Europe.”
Dr. Matthew E. Bunson is a Register senior editor and a senior contributor to EWTN News. For the past 20 years, he has been active in the area of Catholic social communications and education, including writing, editing, and teaching on a variety of topics related to Church history, the papacy, the saints and Catholic culture. He is faculty chair at Catholic Distance University, a senior fellow of the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, and the author or co-author of over 50 books including The Encyclopedia of Catholic History, The Pope Encyclopedia, We Have a Pope! Benedict XVI, The Saints Encyclopedia and best-selling biographies of St. Damien of Molokai and St. Kateri Tekakwitha.
Episode Four – Communion Found in the Little Things – Stories from the Heart with Msgr. John Esseff
Msgr. John Esseff and Kris McGregor explore the theme of discernment and the lifelong formation of a soul in relationship with God. One’s life is not defined solely by the present moment but by the totality of one’s journey, shaped by past experiences, cultural background, and the presence of God in each encounter. True discernment involves understanding both where a person has been and where God is calling them and the importance of seeing each human interaction as involving a divine third party. Awareness of God’s hand throughout one’s life—past, present, and future—is essential for spiritual growth.
Msgr. Esseff also shares vivid memories from his childhood growing up in a Maronite Catholic family in coal country Pennsylvania. He recalls spiritual moments of wonder—from giving away a dime to a stranger and feeling profound joy, to sensing God’s presence in nature and creation as a young boy. He speaks of his early and deep awareness of God’s presence, shaped by family, community, and the liturgical life of the Church. These formative experiences are not extraordinary but available to all who open their hearts to God’s nearness.
Reflection Questions
How does considering your whole life story, rather than just your present self, help you understand God’s plan for you?
In what ways do you see God present as the “third party” in your daily encounters with others?
Have you taken time to reflect on your past and how it has shaped your spiritual journey?
What cultural or familial influences have affected your view of God and others?
When have you most clearly felt God’s delight in you, and what were the circumstances?
How has your early family or community life impacted your experience of communion and faith?
Are there moments in creation where you have deeply sensed God’s presence?
What practices help you remain aware of God in the present moment?
How can you allow God to transform your past experiences into grace for the present?
What is one moment from your childhood where you now see God was especially near to you?
About the Series
In this deeply personal and spiritually rich podcast series, Msgr. John Esseff—renowned retreat master, confessor, and spiritual director—shares intimate stories of his remarkable life. Having encountered some of the most beloved and influential figures of the modern Church, including St. Teresa of Calcutta, St. Padre Pio, Pope St. John Paul II, and many others, Msgr. Esseff offers listeners a living memory of the Church’s heart in the 20th and 21st centuries. This series also explores his missionary work with the poor, his years of service through the Pontifical Missions, and the profound lessons drawn from hidden saints and everyday holiness.
All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor
Episode 4: The Fourth and Fifth Shewings — Blood, Mercy, and the Triumph of Christ
Summary: In this episode we enter the Fourth and Fifth Shewings, where Julian beholds the Precious Blood of Christ poured out in love, not horror, and is wrapped in His “homely loving”—an intimate mercy that does not recoil from sin but encloses it. She sees how Christ’s Passion overcomes the enemy, not by force but through unfathomable love, turning even the devil’s malice into the joy of the saved. With vivid tenderness and deep theological insight, Julian invites us to find refuge in the Blood of Christ, rejoice in His victory, and rest in the truth that all shall be well.
Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 4:
From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XII-XIII, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).
The Fourth Shewing – Christ’s Homely Loving and the Meaning of Sin
“For in that same time that I saw this bodily sight, our Lord shewed me a spiritual sight of His homely loving. I saw that He is to us everything that is good and comfortable to our help. He is our clothing that for love wrappeth us, claspeth us, and all encloseth us, for tender love.” (Ch. XII)
The Precious and Plenteous Blood of Christ
“And after this I saw, beholding, the body plenteously bleeding in seeming of the Scourging, as thus:—The fair skin was broken full deep into the tender flesh with sharp smiting all about the sweet body. So plenteously the hot blood ran out that there was neither seen skin nor wound, but as it were all blood…” (Ch. XII)
“The dearworthy blood of our Lord Jesus Christ as verily as it is most precious, so verily it is most plenteous. Behold and see! The precious plenty of His dearworthy blood descended down into Hell and burst her bands and delivered all that were there which belonged to the Court of Heaven. The precious plenty of His dearworthy blood overfloweth all Earth, and is ready to wash all creatures of sin, which be of goodwill, have been, and shall be. The precious plenty of His dearworthy blood ascended up into Heaven to the blessed body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and there is in Him, bleeding and praying for us to the Father,—and is, and shall be as long as it needeth;—and ever shall be as long as it needeth. And evermore it floweth in all Heavens enjoying the salvation of all mankind.” (Ch. XII)
The Fifth Shewing – The Passion Overcomes the Fiend
“After this, ere God shewed any words, He suffered me for a convenient time to give heed unto Him and all that I had seen, and all intellect that was therein, as the simplicity of the soul might take it. Then He, without voice and opening of lips, formed in my soul these words: ‘Herewith is the Fiend overcome.’ These words said our Lord, meaning His blessed Passion as He shewed it afore.” (Ch. XIII)
“On this shewed our Lord that the Passion of Him is the overcoming of the Fiend. God shewed that the Fiend hath now the same malice that he had afore the Incarnation. And as sore he travaileth, and as continually he seeth that all souls of salvation escape him, worshipfully, by the virtue of Christ’s precious Passion. And that is his sorrow, and full evil is he ashamed: for all that God suffereth him to do turneth [for] us to joy and [for] him to shame and woe. And he hath as much sorrow when God giveth him leave to work, as when he worketh not: and that is for that he may never do as ill as he would: for his might is all taken into God’s hand.” (Ch. XIII)
But in God there may be no wrath, as to my sight: for our good Lord endlessly hath regard to His own worship and to the profit of all that shall be saved. With might and right He withstandeth the Reproved… Also I saw our Lord scorn his malice and set at nought his unmight; and He willeth that we do so. For this sight I laughed mightily, and that made them to laugh that were about me… I thought that I would that all mine even-Christians had seen as I saw, and then would they all laugh with me.” (Ch. XIII)
“But I saw not Christ laugh. For I understood that we may laugh in comforting of ourselves and joying in God for that the devil is overcome. And when I saw Him scorn his malice, it was by leading of mine understanding into our Lord: that is to say, it was an inward shewing of verity, without changing of look.”(Ch. XIII)
“I see three things: I see game, in that the Fiend is overcome; I see scorn, in that God scorneth him, and he shall be scorned; and I see earnest, in that he is overcome by the blissful Passion and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ that was done in full earnest and with sober travail.” (Ch. XIII)
When I said, he is scorned,—I meant that God scorneth him, that is to say, because He seeth him now as he shall do without end. For in this [word] God shewed that the Fiend is condemned. And this meant I when I said: he shall be scorned: [he shall be scorned] at Doomsday, generally of all that shall be saved, to whose consolation he hath great ill-will.44 For then he shall see that all the woe and tribulation that he hath done to them shall be turned to increase of their joy, without end; and all the pain and tribulation that he would have brought them to shall endlessly go with him to hell.(Chap XIII)
Scripture Featured
(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )
(Rom 13:14, RSV)
“Put on the Lord Jesus Christ”
(Psalms 91:4, RSV)
“He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings you will find refuge”
(1 Tim 2:4, RSV)
“[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”
(Rom 5:20, RSV)
“Grace abounded all the more”
(Rom 8:28, RSV)
“We know that in everything God works for good with those who love Him.”
(Rom 2:4, RSV)
“He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord has them in derision.”
Catechism of the Catholic Church
“By his Passion and death on the Cross, Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion” (CCC 1505).
“The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross and applies its fruit.” (CCC 1366).
“God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end” (CCC 1037).
“The desire for God is written in the human heart… and God never ceases to draw man to Himself” (CCC 27).
“Nothing occurs that God cannot turn toward the good.”
(CCC 312)
“By his death he has conquered death, and so opened the possibility of salvation to all men.”
(CCC 634)
“The Last Judgment will reveal…the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which His Providence led everything towards its final end.” (CCC 1040)
Reflection Questions for Prayer
How do you experience Christ’s “homely loving” in the midst of your own struggles?
What does it mean for you to trust that the Precious Blood of Christ still flows for you?
Can you find joy in the truth that evil has already been overcome by the Passion of Christ?
Closing Prayer (inspired by the Fourth and Fifth Shewings)
Lord Jesus Christ, You bled for love and suffered for our salvation. You have overcome the darkness and crushed the enemy beneath Your feet. Wrap us now in Your homely loving— Draw near to our wounds with Your Precious Blood. Fill our hearts with joy in Your triumph. And help us never forget that in Your Passion, all things are made new. Amen.
Day 9, Part 2 – The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity- Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles
Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor continue their discussion on the ninth day of The Last Retreat by St. Elizabeth of the Trinity. St. Elizabeth reflects on God’s call to holiness, rooted in His revelation to Moses as “I AM.” She sees holiness not as a distant, unattainable state, but as a loving invitation from God to walk in His presence and be transformed by His life. This journey involves trusting in God’s presence, especially in trials and desolation, and choosing to act with love even in darkness, confusion, or suffering. St. Elizabeth’s spirituality is deeply relational—centered on communion with God who desires union with the soul.
Living in God’s presence reshapes daily life, helping us respond to pain, betrayal, and spiritual attacks with faith rather than fear. Pride and ego are presented as obstacles to divine love, and St. Elizabeth’s invitation is to let go of self and allow God’s life to flourish within.
Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions
How do I respond to God’s invitation to walk in His presence each day?
In what ways do I recognize God’s holiness as a personal call to transformation?
When facing fear or confusion, do I choose to believe God is present with me?
What areas of my life reveal an attachment to control, approval, or comfort?
How do I handle spiritual desolation or moments when God feels absent?
Do I allow my ego to get in the way of loving others or receiving God’s love?
How might practicing humility help me die to self and live more fully in Christ?
What “arrows” or spiritual attacks have I faced, and how did I respond in faith?
Can I see trials and sufferings as opportunities for deeper union with God?
How am I being invited today to let go of self and become who God created me to be?
“23. Speaking to Abraham God said: “Walk in My presence and be perfect.” 134 This then is the way to achieve this perfection that our Heavenly Father asks of us! St. Paul, after having immersed himself in the divine counsels, 135 revealed exactly this to us when he wrote “God has chosen us in Him before the creation of the world, that we might be holy and immaculate in His presence in love.” 136 It is also by the light of this same saint that I will be enlightened so that I might walk without deviating from this magnificent road of the presence of God on which the soul journeys “alone with the Alone,” 137 led by the “strength of His right arm,” 138 “under the protection of His wings, without fearing the terror of the night nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the evil that stalks in darkness, nor the attacks of the noonday devil. 139
24. “Strip off the old man in whom you lived your former life, “ he tells me, “and put on the new man, who has been created according to God in justice and holiness.” 140 This is the way set forth; we have only to strip off self to follow it as God wills! To strip off self, to die to self, to lose sight of self. It seems to me the Master meant this when He said: “If anyone wants to follow Me, let him take up his cross and deny himself.” 141 “If you live according to the flesh,” the Apostle also says, “you will die, but if you put to death in the spirit the works of the flesh, you will live.” 142 This is the death that God asks for and of which it is said: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 143 “O death,” says the Lord, “I will be your death”; 144 that is: O soul, my adopted daughter, look at Me and you will forget yourself; flow entirely into My Being, come die in Me that I may live in you!”
Elizabeth of the Trinity (2014-07-24). Elizabeth of the Trinity Complete Works, Volume I: I Have Found God, General Introduction and Major Spiritual Writings (Kindle Locations 3353-3374). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.
Anthony Lilles, S.T.D., has served the Church and assisted in the formation of clergy and seminarians since 1994. Before coming to St. Patrick’s, he served at seminaries and houses of formation in the Archdiocese of Denver and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. The son of a California farmer, married with young adult children, holds a B.A. in theology from the Franciscan University of Steubenville with both the ecclesiastical licentiate and doctorate in spiritual theology from the Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas in Rome (the Angelicum). An expert in the writings of St. Elizabeth of the Trinity and the Carmelite Doctors of the Church, he co-founded the Avila Institute for Spiritual Formation and the High Calling Program for priestly vocations. He also founded the John Paul II Center for Contemplative Culture, which hosts symposiums, retreats, and conferences. In addition to his publications, he blogs at www.beginningtopray.com .
Conference 3 – Discerning the Will of God with Fr. Timothy Gallagher O.M.V.
Fr. Timothy Gallagher discusses the foundation of discernment as presented in the teachings of St. Ignatius of Loyola. He highlights the deeply personal nature of each person’s calling, referencing scriptural examples like Jeremiah, Isaiah, St. Paul, and Jesus, who each had unique missions known to God from their earliest beginnings. This foundational principle, rooted in the intrinsic dignity and unrepeatable purpose of every human being, is essential for genuine spiritual discernment. Gallagher emphasizes that our primary focus should be on aligning our lives with God’s will, just as Christ expressed through His mission to “do the will of Him who sent me.”
Fr. Gallagher also outlines the spiritual tools Ignatius offers to support this process, including the Eucharist, regular confession, and prayer with Scripture. These practices deepen one’s openness to God’s will, helping to cultivate the necessary interior disposition for clear and faithful discernment. Personal examples illustrate the transformative power of these practices, demonstrating how they foster intimacy with God and provide clarity in times of choice.
You can find various handouts spoken of by Fr. Gallagher in the links below:
From 