Kris McGregor Archives

Ep 9 – The 13th Shewing pt. 1 – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 9: The Thirteenth Shewing (Part 1) — The Mystery of Sin and the Assurance of Divine Love

Summary:

In Episode 9 we begin with part 1 of the Thirteenth Shewing, Julian confronts the mystery of sin and the question that has echoed through every age: why did God allow it? Her desire for understanding is met not with explanation but with a word of divine assurance—”All shall be well.” This episode invites us into the mystery of redemptive hope, where God’s hidden work is not yet seen but fully underway. This is the first of several episodes on Julian’s longest and most theologically rich revelation.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 9:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XXVII-XXXI, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).

The Mystery of Sin and the Surpassing Assurance of Christ

“AFTER this the Lord brought to my mind the longing that I had to Him afore. And I saw that nothing letted me but sin. And so I looked, generally, upon us all, and methought: If sin had not been, we should all have been clean and like to our Lord, as He made us.

And thus, in my folly, afore this time often I wondered why by the great foreseeing wisdom of God the beginning of sin was not letted: for then, methought, all should have been well. This stirring [of mind] was much to be forsaken, but nevertheless mourning and sorrow I made therefor, without reason and discretion.

But Jesus, who in this Vision informed me of all that is needful to me, answered by this word and said: It behoved that there should be sin; but all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.” (Ch. 27)

The Nature of Sin, the Purpose of Pain, and the Consolation of the Passion

“But I saw not sin: for I believe it hath no manner of substance nor no part of being, nor could it be known but by the pain it is cause of.
And thus pain, it is something, as to my sight, for a time; for it purgeth, and maketh us to know ourselves and to ask mercy. For the Passion of our Lord is comfort to us against all this, and so is His blessed will.” (Ch. 27)

“And for the tender love that our good Lord hath to all that shall be saved, He comforteth readily and sweetly, signifying thus: It is sooth that sin is cause of all this pain; but all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner [of] thing shall be well.

These words were said full tenderly, showing no manner of blame to me nor to any that shall be saved. Then were it a great unkindness to blame or wonder on God for my sin, since He blameth not me for sin.”(Ch. 27)

Christ’s Compassion and the Glory to Come

THUS I saw how Christ hath compassion on us for the cause of sin. And right as I was afore in the [Shewing of the] Passion of Christ fulfilled with pain and compassion, like so in this [sight] I was fulfilled, in part, with compassion of all mine even-Christians—for that well, well beloved people that shall be saved. For God’s servants, Holy Church, shall be shaken in sorrow and anguish, tribulation in this world, as men shake a cloth in the wind.

And as to this our Lord answered in this manner: A great thing shall I make hereof in Heaven of endless worship and everlasting joys.”(Ch. 28)

“And then I saw that each kind compassion that man hath on his even-Christians with charity, it is Christ in him.

That same noughting that was shewed in His Passion, it was shewed again here in this Compassion. Wherein were two manner of understandings in our Lord’s meaning. The one was the bliss that we are brought to, wherein He willeth that we rejoice. The other is for comfort in our pain: for He willeth that we perceive that it shall all be turned to worship and profit by virtue of His passion, that we perceive that we suffer not alone but with Him, and see Him to be our Ground, and that we see His pains and His noughting passeth so far all that we may suffer, that it may not be fully thought.” (Ch. 28)

The Hidden Part and the Peace of Trusting God

“The other [part] is hid and shut up from us: that is to say, all that is beside our salvation. For it is our Lord’s privy counsel, and it belongeth to the royal lordship of God to have His privy counsel in peace, and it belongeth to His servant, for obedience and reverence, not to learn wholly His counsel. Our Lord hath pity and compassion on us for that some creatures make themselves so busy therein; and I am sure if we knew how much we should please Him and ease ourselves by leaving it, we would. The saints that be in Heaven, they will to know nothing but that which our Lord willeth to shew them: and also their charity and their desire is ruled after the will of our Lord: and thus ought we to will, like to them. Then shall we nothing will nor desire but the will of our Lord, as they do: for we are all one in God’s seeing.” (Ch. 30)

The Fivefold Promise of the Trinity

“AND thus our good Lord answered to all the questions and doubts that I might make, saying full comfortably: I may make all thing well, I can make all thing well, I will make all thing well, and I shall make all thing well; and thou shalt see thyself that all manner of thing shall be well.

In that He saith, I may, I understand [it] for the Father; and in that He saith, I can, I understand [it] for the Son; and where He saith, I will, I understand [it] for the Holy Ghost; and where He saith, I shall, I understand [it] for the unity of the blessed Trinity: three Persons and one Truth; and where He saith, Thou shalt see thyself, I understand the oneing of all mankind that shall be saved unto the blessed Trinity. And in these five words God willeth we be enclosed in rest and in peace.” (Ch. 31)

The Great Deed, the Mystery of Salvation, and the Fidelity of God

“That there be deeds evil done in our sight, and so great harms taken, that it seemeth to us that it were impossible that ever it should come to good end. And upon this we look, sorrowing and mourning therefor, so that we cannot resign us unto the blissful beholding of God as we should do. And the cause of this is that the use of our reason is now so blind, so low, and so simple, that we cannot know that high marvellous Wisdom, the Might and the Goodness of the blissful Trinity. And thus signifieth He when He saith: THOU SHALT SEE THYSELF if all manner of things shall be well. As if He said: Take now heed faithfully and trustingly, and at the last end thou shalt verily see it in fulness of joy.” (Ch. 32)

“And in this sight I marvelled greatly and beheld our Faith, marvelling thus: Our Faith is grounded in God’s word, and it belongeth to our Faith that we believe that God’s word shall be saved in all things; and one point of our Faith is that many creatures shall be condemned: as angels that fell out of Heaven for pride, which be now fiends; and man in earth that dieth out of the Faith of Holy Church… all these shall be condemned to hell without end, as Holy Church teacheth me to believe. And all this so standing, methought it was impossible that all manner of things should be well, as our Lord shewed in the same time.” (Ch. 32)

“And as to this I had no other answer in Shewing of our Lord God but this: That which is impossible to thee is not impossible to me: I shall save my word in all things and I shall make all things well. Thus I was taught, by the grace of God, that I should steadfastly hold me in the Faith as I had aforehand understood, [and] therewith that I should firmly believe that all things shall be well, as our Lord shewed in the same time. For this is the Great Deed that our Lord shall do, in which Deed He shall save His word and He shall make all well that is not well. How it shall be done there is no creature beneath Christ that knoweth it, nor shall know it till it is done; according to the understanding that I took of our Lord’s meaning in this time.” (Ch. 32)

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

(Romans 5:20, RSV)

“Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more.”

(Romans 8:18, RSV)

“I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”

(Galatians 2:20, RSV)

“.It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me”

(2 Corinthians 1:5)

“For as we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too.”

(Deuteronomy 29:29)

“The secret things belong to the Lord our God; but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever.”

(1 Timothy 2:4)

“God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (also cited in CCC 1037)

Catechism of the Catholic Church

“God permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it.” (CCC 311)

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of ‘predestination’, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace.” (CCC 600)

“The last judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life… Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history.” (CCC 1039)

“God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end.” (CCC 1037)

“In everything God works for good with those who love him… and the greatest moral evil ever committed—the rejection and murder of God’s only Son—was permitted by God… in order to bring about his saving plan of redemption.” (CCC 312)

St. Thomas Aquinas:

“Evil is the privation of good, which belongs properly to the subject. Hence, it has no formal or specific nature of its own, but is rather the absence of some good.”— Summa Theologiae, I, q. 48, a. 1

“Since every nature, as such, is good, evil cannot signify a particular nature or being, but only the privation of good in a being.”— Summa Theologiae, I, q. 48, a. 3

St. Augustine:

“And I beheld and saw that whatsoever is, is good. And that evil is not a substance; for if it were, it would be good. For either it would be an incorruptible substance, and so be the chief good; or a corruptible substance, which, unless it were good, could not be corrupted. I saw that all that is corrupted is deprived of good.” Confessions, trans. E.B. Pusey, Book VII, Ch. 12 (sometimes labeled §16–17 in scholarly editions)

God judged it better to bring good out of evil than not to permit evil to exist.” (Enchiridion, 11.3)

Reflection Questions for Prayer

How does Christ’s joy in His Passion challenge my understanding of suffering and sacrifice?
In what ways do I see myself as part of Christ’s joy, His crown, and His reward?
Can I trust that God’s plan for my salvation is perfect—even when I cannot see or feel its fullness?
How might Christ be inviting me to enter more deeply into the “delectable place” of His open side—into the refuge of His Sacred Heart?

Closing Prayer (inspired by the Ninth and Tenth Shewing)

Lord Jesus Christ,
In Your Passion You rejoiced,
For love made Your suffering an offering of endless bliss.
You looked upon us not as burdens, but as Your joy,
The gift given You by the Father, the crown upon Your head.
You opened Your side and revealed the resting place prepared for every soul.
In Your cloven Heart, we find refuge, peace, and perfect love.
Draw us into the depths of Your mercy.
Teach us to gaze upon Your Passion not with fear but with confidence.
May we become for You what You have desired:
Your joy, Your reward, Your eternal delight.
And may Your love, once poured out on the Cross,
Continue to draw all souls into Your wounded Heart,
Where joy never ends.

Amen.

ITP#513 – Leila Lawler – St. Hildegard’s Garden on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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In this episode of Inside the Pages, Kris McGregor speaks with Leila Lawler about the beautifully illustrated book Hildegard’s Garden by French author Paul Frees. The conversation centers on the multifaceted life and legacy of St. Hildegard of Bingen, a twelfth-century Benedictine abbess, mystic, and Doctor of the Church. Lawler shares how her appreciation for Hildegard deepened over time—first sparked by Pope Benedict XVI’s declaration of Hildegard as a Doctor of the Church and later nourished by her daughters’ interest in Hildegard’s sacred music and by reading Victoria Sweet’s God’s Hotel.

The book itself is far more than a botanical or herbal manual. While it features stunning illustrations and practical remedies based on Hildegard’s understanding of healing herbs, it also offers a compelling biography and highlights Hildegard’s philosophy of creation, healing, and divine vitality—what Hildegard called viriditas, the greening life force. McGregor and Lawler explore how Hildegard’s holistic view of the world was deeply rooted in Benedictine spirituality, which integrated prayer, work, hospitality, and care for the whole person. They also discuss how Pope Benedict XVI saw Hildegard—and other mystics such as Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Ávila, and Julian of Norwich—as key voices in reviving a richer, more integrated theology, especially one attentive to the mystery and beauty of God’s presence in creation. The podcast affirms Hildegard’s relevance not only for her time but especially for ours, where a recovery of reverence for creation and the wisdom of the saints is urgently needed.

Discerning Hearts spiritual reflection questions:

How does Hildegard of Bingen’s concept of viriditas invite us to see God’s life-giving presence in creation and in our own healing?
In what ways can Hildegard’s integration of faith, science, and art inspire a more unified approach to our spiritual and physical well-being?
How might Benedictine hospitality, as practiced by Hildegard, reshape the way we care for those who are suffering in our communities?
What can we learn from Pope Benedict XVI’s decision to highlight women mystics like Hildegard as vital contributors to theology and Church renewal?
How does reading Hildegard’s letters give us a deeper understanding of her humility, obedience, and spiritual authority?
In what ways does Hildegard’s view of the cosmos challenge the modern tendency to separate God from His creation?
How can Hildegard’s practical wisdom about herbs, rest, and natural rhythms inform how we care for ourselves and our families today?
What role does beauty—in nature, music, and daily life—play in leading us toward a deeper knowledge and love of God?

You can find the book here

From the book description:

Hildegard of Bingen (1098–1179) was a mystic and scholar who chronicled more than six hundred pages of visions, wrote cantatas, and even devised her own language. She authored The Book of Divine Works, Causes and Cures, and Scivias and corresponded with the greatest intellectuals, theologians, and royals of her time.

As a pioneer of European phytotherapy, Hildegard described and cataloged hundreds of ingredients from plant, mineral, and animal origins. Her recipes, remedies, nutritional advice, and holistic view of the human being are as valued and appreciated today as when she developed them nearly a thousand years ago.

This book faithfully applies Hildegard’s pioneering thought to everyday living in our time. In these potent pages, you will find the medicinal properties of essential herbs as well as how to identify, utilize, and cultivate them. You will also learn:

“Hildegard’s elixir” for curing common ailments
Ways to include delicious herbs in your dinner and dessert recipes to fortify your health
The herbs that will help you relieve forgetfulness and ease muscle tension
Effective treatments for nervous, digestive, circulatory, respiratory, and hormonal illnesses
Recipes for preparing everything from breakfast dishes and soups to medicinal wines, teas, poultices, ointments, oils, plasters, and eye drops
Which “herb of the angels” is used to treat anxiety, fatigue, and much more

Additionally, you will discover the most favorable environment for growing the plants most heartily recommended by Hildegard, and step-by-step instructions on how to develop your own spiritually organized and fruitful garden plan.

IP#313 Fr. Sean Davidson – Saint Mary Magdalene on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Fr. Sean Davidson – Saint Mary Magdalene on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor

Fr. Sean Davidson joins Kris McGregor to discuss his book St. Mary Magdalene: Prophetess of Eucharistic Love. Drawing from his experience serving at the Basilica of St. Mary Magdalene in Provence, France, Fr. Davidson presents Mary Magdalene not only as a historical figure but as a deeply contemplative soul. He argues in favor of the traditional view that identifies Mary Magdalene with both the repentant sinner in Luke’s Gospel and Mary of Bethany, citing scriptural patterns, patristic writings (notably from St. Augustine and St. Gregory the Great), and longstanding devotion in both East and West. He reflects on her recurring posture at Jesus’ feet as a sign of profound love and devotion, and explores how this reverent presence culminates in her being the first to proclaim the Resurrection.

Fr. Davidson portrays Mary Magdalene as a model of Eucharistic love and transformation, someone who teaches us how to approach Christ with awe and total surrender. Saints like St. Teresa of Avila and St. Catherine of Siena were inspired by her example, and her legacy offers deep hope for conversion and holiness. He expresses concern over modern reductions of her identity—both scholarly and cultural—but insists that a prayerful reading of the Gospels reveals a prophetic and saintly figure uniquely devoted to Jesus. Mary Magdalene, he says, continues to be a powerful spiritual mother and teacher, especially for those who long to grow in love for Christ in the Eucharist.

You can find the book here.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How does Mary Magdalene’s unwavering presence at the feet of Jesus challenge my own posture of prayer and devotion?
What can I learn from her transformation from sinner to saint about the power of Christ’s mercy in my own life?
In what ways do I encounter Christ in the Eucharist with the same amazement and love that Mary Magdalene demonstrated?
How do I respond when others misunderstand or criticize my expressions of faith, as Mary Magdalene was often criticized?
Am I willing to be led by tradition and the Church Fathers in deepening my understanding of the saints, even amid modern scholarly debates?
How can Mary Magdalene’s bold witness to the Resurrection inspire me to share the Gospel more openly and courageously?
What gestures of love for Christ—like Mary’s anointing—can I offer in my daily life?
In what ways do I allow the opinions of others to distract me from what Christ thinks of me?
Do I see my past sins, once confessed, as potential testimonies to God’s mercy, as Mary Magdalene’s life illustrates?
How can I bring Mary Magdalene’s example into my family life and spiritual formation, especially for the next generation?

About the Book

Adoration is love, and eucharistic adoration is love of Christ present in the Blessed Sacrament. In the Gospels there are few people who understand love for Jesus as well as Mary Magdalene, which is the reason she is a prophetess of eucharistic love.

This work is an extended meditation on the life of Saint Mary Magdalene, known as the “Apostle to the Apostles” because the Risen Christ appeared to her first and then sent her to announce the Resurrection to the apostles. Based on the biblical texts traditionally associated with Mary Magdalene, this book helps readers to learn from her inspiring example and to enter more deeply into adoration of Jesus Christ truly present in the Blessed Sacrament.

In telling the story of Mary Magdalene’s profound conversion after the Lord had to expel seven demons from her soul, this book shows how she is a shining witness to the transforming power of an encounter with Jesus Christ. Mary Magdalene is the perfect model for those who have experienced the redeeming love of Christ and who seek to deepen their devotion to him and to the Eucharist.

About the Author

Father Sean Davidson is a member of the Missionaries of the Most Holy Eucharist. He spent two years serving at the magnificent Basilica of Saint Mar y Magdalene in Provence, France, where he received the inspiration for this work. He is currently serving at the Eucharistic Retreat Center in the Seminary of the Immaculate Conception, Long Island.

IP#504 Dan LeRoy – Why We Think What We Think on Inside the Pages w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Why We Think What We Think by Dan LeRoy on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor

In this episode of Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor, guest Dan LeRoy discusses his book, which explores the decline of philosophical thinking in the Western world. They discuss the importance of philosophy for fostering critical thinking and understanding cultural shifts. LeRoy critiques modern philosophy for becoming disconnected from practical realities, arguing that it has contributed to societal confusion and dissatisfaction.

They explore historical and philosophical influences, highlighting how figures like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and later, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, have shaped Western thought. The discussion emphasizes the enduring relevance of classical philosophers and the consequences of abandoning their teachings in modern times. LeRoy argues that reconnecting with these foundational ideas is essential for addressing contemporary issues and achieving true happiness, which aligns with the pursuit of virtue and truth.

LeRoy also critiques modern philosophical trends that prioritize individual happiness over communal responsibility, linking these trends to broader societal unhappiness. The conversation underscores the need for a philosophical renaissance that embraces ancient and medieval thinkers’ rigorous, virtue-oriented approach to remedying modern existential and ethical dilemmas.

You can find the book here.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions:

Personal Reflection on Philosophy: How does your understanding of philosophy align with the perspectives shared by Dan Leroy? In what ways can you incorporate philosophical thinking into your daily life to make more informed, virtuous decisions?
Role of Virtue: How do you define virtue in your own life? Reflect on how the pursuit of virtue can lead to greater happiness and fulfillment, as discussed by LeRoy. Are there areas in your life where you could strive more actively for virtue?
Influence of Historical Philosophers: Consider the impact of philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, St. Augustine, and St. Thomas Aquinas on your own understanding of the world. How do their teachings on truth and virtue resonate with your personal beliefs and practices?
Modern Philosophy’s Disconnect: LeRoy discusses the disconnect of modern philosophy from practical and ethical concerns. Reflect on any modern philosophical ideas or movements you are aware of. Do you agree that they are disconnected from “real-world” applications? Why or why not?
Critical Thinking in Culture: In what ways do you think critical thinking is lacking in today’s culture? How can the revival of classical philosophical principles contribute to solving contemporary problems?
Philosophy and the Catholic Faith: Reflect on how philosophy can complement your Catholic faith. How can embracing philosophical inquiry enhance your spiritual life and your understanding of Catholic teachings?
Community and Individualism: Reflect on the tension between individualism and community responsibilities as discussed in the episode. How do you balance personal freedom with communal obligations in your own life?
Pursuit of Truth and Happiness: How does your pursuit of truth impact your happiness? Do you agree with the assertion that true happiness comes from fulfilling our purpose and seeking virtue? Why or why not?
Engagement with Philosophical Texts: Are there philosophical texts or thinkers you have been meaning to explore? What might be holding you back, and how could engaging with these materials enrich your intellectual and spiritual life?
Action Steps: Based on the discussion in the podcast, what are some practical steps you can take to deepen your philosophical understanding and apply it to your life challenges?

From the book’s description:

We’re all starting to hear people ask how the world has gotten to be the way it is. Grafted onto the usual complaints about why people are so greedy, self-absorbed, and callous toward one another are new expressions of frustration about even more fundamental concerns. Why can’t we agree on concepts that used to be basic common sense? Why does our very language now seem to be a minefield that only the most wily and tactical (or cynical) among us can navigate?

The only way to understand fully how we have arrived at this state — and what, if anything, we might be able to do about it — is to embark on a journey back in time to see where we went off the rails. With candor and occasional humor, Dan LeRoy tells the sweeping story of Western thought from its beginnings to the present, revealing the souls and idiosyncrasies of its greatest thinkers. Through stirring vignettes, he tells the real story of how our customs and thought patterns developed and then relates it to our current moment of rupture.

In pages that sometimes read like an Indiana Jones adventure, LeRoy explains the detour that philosophy took nearly a thousand years ago that has led Western society to its current, dire situation. With sharp pen and clear eye, he reveals:

The roots of classical philosophy, including empiricism (Ready to wade into the water?)

How views on ethics and morality began to take shape even before Christ

The three ways to attain happiness, according to the Big Three philosophers

Four splinter groups and how their philosophies impact us today

The enduring teachings of Sts. Augustine and Aquinas, among many others

About the Author

Dan LeRoy is an author, journalist and teacher who has been the director of the Writing and Publishing Department at Lincoln Park Performing Arts Charter School in Midland, Pennsylvania, since 2006. His writing about music and politics has appeared in the New York Times, Rolling Stone, Newsweek, the Village Voice, Alternative Press, Esquire, and National Review Online.

Ep 8 – The Eleventh and Twelfth Shewings – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 8: The Eleventh and Twelfth Shewings — The Joy of Christ (His Blessed Mother) and the Gaze of Heaven

Summary:

In this episode, Julian of Norwich is drawn into the radiant joy of Christ—the joy He takes in His Blessed Mother, and the glory revealed in His glorified Face. In the Eleventh Shewing, Christ lovingly invites Julian to “see her”—to behold the Virgin Mary as He does, with delight and reverence. Through Julian’s vision, we glimpse the profound place of Mary in Christ’s heart and in the life of every Christian. In the Twelfth Shewing, Julian is lifted to contemplate the joy of Heaven: the Beatific Vision, where the saints behold the Face of Christ and are fully seen, fully known, and fully loved. Drawing from Julian’s text, Scripture, the Catechism, and the wisdom of the saints, this episode opens the mystery of divine joy that begins in Christ’s Passion and culminates in eternal glory.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Primary Source:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XXV-XXVI, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).
You can access PDF edition here

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 8:

“Wilt thou see her?” — The Shewing of Mary

“AND with this same cheer of mirth and joy our good Lord looked down on the right side and brought to my mind where our Lady stood in the time of His Passion; and said: Wilt thou see her?” (Ch. 25)

“And for the high, marvellous, singular love that He hath to this sweet Maiden, His blessed Mother, our Lady Saint Mary, He shewed her highly rejoicing… as if He said: Wilt thou see how I love her, that thou mightest joy with me in the love that I have in her and she in me?” (Ch. 25)

“For after Himself she is the most blissful sight. But hereof am I not learned to long to see her bodily presence while I am here, but the virtues of her blessed soul: her truth, her wisdom, her charity; whereby I may learn to know myself and reverently dread my God.” (Ch. 25)

“And Jesus in that word shewed me ghostly sight of her: right as I had seen her afore little and simple, so He shewed her then high and noble and glorious, and pleasing to Him above all creatures.” (Ch. 25)

The Three Shewings of Mary

“AND after this the Lord shewed Himself more glorified, as to my sight, than I saw Him before wherein I was learned to my understanding that it shall be thus in Heaven without end to all that shall come there. For the change of His blessed Countenance shall be the joy of the blessed without end that see Him.” (Ch. 26)

“This blessed Countenance of the Godhead fulfilleth the joy of the saints in Heaven; which blessed Countenance of the Lord is open to be seen, and shall be seen evermore of the blessed, which for His homely loving behold Him gladly; evermore enjoying Him, that is, God, their Maker and their Keeper, their Lover and their Bliss.” (Ch. 26)

Quotes from the Saints and other resources

“Lift up thine heart and behold thy Lord with eyes of love, for He hangeth there for thee… His arms stretched wide to embrace thee, His side open to receive thee, His blood flowing to cleanse thee.”
(Middle English Devotional Prose, ed. Veronica O’Mara, 1994)

“The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.” (Munificentissimus Deus, §44, Pope Pius XII, 1950)

“If you ever feel distressed during your day — call upon our Lady — just say this simple prayer: ‘Mary, Mother of Jesus, please be a mother to me now.’ I must admit — this prayer has never failed me.” (St. Teresa of Calcutta – Come Be My Light, 2007, p. 197)

“She was made a book in which the Word was written, by the power of the eternal Father, and the wisdom of the Son, and the mercy of the Holy Spirit.” (St. Catherine of Siena – Dialogue, Ch. 116; trans. Suzanne Noffke, O.P., 1980)

“From the moment I first conceived Him in my womb, I never ceased carrying Him in my heart. When I gave birth to Him, I felt as though half my heart had left me. And when He suffered the Passion, His pain became my pain, because His heart was my heart. And when He died, it felt to me as though my own heart were dying.” (St. Bridget of Sweden – Revelations, Book 1, Ch. 10; trans. Denis Searby, Oxford University Press, 2006)

Catechism of the Catholic Church

CCC 964: “Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood… joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart.”

CCC 1028:“Because of his transcendent holiness, God cannot be seen as he is unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. This contemplation of God in his heavenly glory is called ‘the beatific vision’

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.” (1 Corinthians 13:12)

“You show me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy, in your right hand are pleasures forevermore.” (Psalm 16:11, RSV)

Reflection Questions for Listeners:

How does Julian’s vision of Christ’s joy in Mary deepen your understanding of devotion to the Blessed Virgin?
In what ways might you be called to imitate Mary’s virtues—truth, wisdom, and charity—in your daily life?
What do you imagine it will be like to see the Face of Christ in glory? How does that hope affect the way you live now?
Do you believe that God gazes on you with personal, homely love—even now? What keeps you from receiving that gaze more deeply?

Closing Prayer (inspired by Julian’s trust in Divine Love):

Lord Jesus Christ,
You revealed to Julian the joy You take in Your Blessed Mother,
And the joy You desire to share with us in the vision of Your glorified Face.
Draw us into that joy, even here and now,
That we might learn to love as You love,
To see as You see,
And to rejoice in what delights Your Sacred Heart.
Mary, Mother of Jesus, be a mother to us now.
Teach us to receive Christ’s love as you did—
Humbly, faithfully, and with open hearts.
Lord, prepare us for the day when Your Countenance shall be our everlasting joy.
Until then, help us to live in Your gaze—
As beloved children, seen and known,
Kept and cherished,
Now and forever.
Amen.

IP#512 Anthony DeStefano – The Miracle Book on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Anthony DeStefano – The Miracle Book on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor

In this episode of Inside the Pages, Anthony DeStefano discusses his latest work The Miracle Book: A Simple Guide to Asking for the Impossible with host Kris McGregor. His book approaches the subject of miracles through a lens of theological clarity and practical spirituality.

The difference between extraordinary, supernatural events and more common, grace-filled answers to prayer is that they may appear natural but are divinely orchestrated. The tension between trusting God’s providence and making specific petitions, shows that such paradoxes deepen rather than diminish true faith. Drawing from Scripture, Church tradition, and personal stories, including the illness and death of his father, Anthony offers us a framework for understanding how God’s responses—though often unexpected—are always rooted in love and order.

A central theme is the call to interior conversion when seeking miracles: aligning spoken prayers with the deeper needs of the soul, practicing trust in divine timing, and accepting that God often answers in ways beyond human comprehension. We must persist in hopeful prayer and utilize concrete spiritual practices that foster receptivity to God’s intervention—not magical thinking, but humble cooperation with divine grace.

You can buy the book here.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions:

What is the difference between asking God for what you want and asking for what your soul truly needs?
How do you understand the distinction between miraculous interventions and natural but providential outcomes in your life?
In what ways might you be unintentionally limiting God by expecting Him to act according to your specific solutions?
How can you practice both persistent prayer and decisive trust in God’s will without falling into discouragement?
Are there any “unanswered prayers” in your past that, in hindsight, reveal a deeper grace or purpose?
What role does personal conversion play in preparing your heart to receive a miracle?
How do you see God’s providence working through the ordinary events of your life?
Do you find it difficult to surrender your desires to God’s will, and why might that be?
How can embracing the paradoxes of faith help you grow in spiritual maturity?
Who in your life can you invite to pray with you in times of need, and how might communal intercession strengthen your faith?

From the book’s description:

At some point everyone needs a miracle.

It might involve your health, your finances, your family, or feelings of anxiety or hopelessness. But there comes a time when all of us experience the need for supernatural help, whether we have faith or not.

Numerous books have been written on miracles, but few explain in clear, practical, theologically sound language how to ask for one.

So many people in the world are suffering but don’t know how to receive help. Some beg and plead with God. Some negotiate, promising that they will change their ways if only He will grant them this one request. But then, if their request is not answered in the way they desire, they lose faith or get angry or sink into despair.

There is a better way.

There is a method of praying for a miracle that guarantees the best possible chance of getting a yes from God — or at least alleviation of our stress and satisfaction for our souls.

Bestselling author Anthony DeStefano explains this powerful new approach and, in the process, relates exactly how to overcome your fears and to experience “the peace that transcends all understanding.”

Through his conversational style, compelling real-life stories, and wisdom, DeStefano explains:

How your prayers can help obtain miracles for yourself and others
Ways in which friends and loved ones can help you obtain your miracle
How to open your heart to receive “courage infusions” to persevere in trials and overcome fear
Ways in which the providential power of paradox can help you obtain the miracle you need
How to put all God’s “conditions” for granting a miracle in one powerful prayer

If you need a miracle right now, this is the book for you. Included inside these covers is the Miracle Prayer, inspirational verses on miracles and hope, and a list of key intercessors for various needs.

About the Author

Anthony DeStefano is the best-selling author of thirty Christian books for adults and children, including: “A Travel Guide to Heaven”, “Ten Prayers God Always Says Yes To”, “Little Star”, and “The Donkey No One Could Ride.” Anthony has been the host of two television series, “A Travel Guide to Life,” and “A Travel Guide to Heaven,” both broadcast on the Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN), as well as several children’s programs.

He has received many awards and honors from religious communities throughout the world. In 2002, he was given an honorary Doctorate from the Joint Academic Commission of the National Clergy Council and the Methodist Episcopal Church for “the advancement of Christian beliefs in modern culture.” The commission is made up of outstanding Evangelical, Orthodox and Protestant theologians and educators. Anthony is a Knight of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the oldest Order in the Catholic Church. He is an avid pilot, and lives with his wife, Jordan, in New Jersey.

Ep 7 – The 9th and 10th Shewing – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 7: The Ninth and Tenth Shewings — The Joy of the Redeemer and the Open Side of Christ

Summary:

In Episode 7 we journey with Julian of Norwich into the mystery of Christ’s joy in His Passion. Rather than sorrow alone, Julian sees the Redeemer rejoicing in His self-offering, delighting to give Himself for the salvation of souls. She is shown the threefold joy of the Trinity, where the Father is pleased, the Son is crowned, and the Holy Spirit is satisfied. Then Julian is led through the wound in Christ’s side into the depths of His Heart—a resting place “large enough for all mankind.” Drawing on Scripture, the Catechism, and the mystical tradition of the Church, this episode opens the mystery of divine charity that transforms suffering into eternal joy, and invites the soul into the inexhaustible mercy of the pierced Heart of Jesus.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 7:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XXXII-XXIV, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).

The Joy of the Redeemer and the Gift of the Father

“THEN said our good Lord Jesus Christ: Art thou well pleased that I suffered for thee? I said: Yea, good Lord, I thank Thee; Yea, good Lord, blessed mayst Thou be. Then said Jesus, our kind Lord: If thou art pleased, I am pleased: it is a joy, a bliss, an endless satisfying to me that ever suffered I Passion for thee; and if I might suffer more, I would suffer more.” (Ch. 22)

“In this feeling my understanding was lifted up into Heaven, and there I saw three heavens: of which sight I marvelled greatly. And though I see three heavens—and all in the blessed manhood of Christ—none is more, none is less, none is higher, none is lower, but [they are] even-like in bliss.” (Ch. 22)

“For the First Heaven, Christ shewed me His Father; in no bodily likeness, but in His property and in His working. That is to say, I saw in Christ that the Father is.” (Ch. 22)

“The working of the Father is this, that He giveth meed to His Son Jesus Christ. This gift and this meed is so blissful to Jesus that His Father might have given Him no meed that might have pleased Him better.” (Ch. 22)

“Wherefore we be not only His by His buying, but also by the courteous gift of His Father we be His bliss, we be His meed, we be His worship, we be His crown.” (Ch. 22)

“And in these words: If that I might suffer more, I would suffer more,—I saw in truth that as often as He might die, so often He would, and love should never let Him have rest till He had done it.” (Ch. 22)

“For though the sweet manhood of Christ might suffer but once, the goodness in Him may never cease of proffer: every day He is ready to the same, if it might be.” (Ch. 22)

“This deed, and this work about our salvation, was ordained as well as God might ordain it. And here I saw a Full Bliss in Christ: for His bliss should not have been full, if it might any better have been done.” (Ch. 22)

The Harmony of Wills in the Son and the Father

“And in these three words: It is a Joy, and a Bliss, and an endless satisfying to Me,—were shewed three heavens, as thus: for the joy, I understood the pleasure of the Father; and for the bliss, the worship of the Son; and for the endless satisfying, the Holy Ghost.” (Ch. 23)

“And these three are one bliss: and one meed: and one endless fulfilling: and throughout all, I saw bliss in the end: in which bliss He is grounded, and rooted; and He is our very Meed.” (Ch. 23)

“For I saw truly that our substance is in God, and also I saw that in our sensuality God is: for in the self-same point that our Soul is made sensual, in the self-same point is the City of God ordained to Him from without beginning; into which seat He cometh, and never shall remove it.” (Ch. 23)

“And all this bliss I saw in the bodily sight, in the showing of the Passion of Christ.” (Ch. 23)

“Lo, how I loved thee” — The Wounded Side and the Heart of Divine Mercy

“THEN with a glad cheer our Lord looked unto His Side and beheld, rejoicing. With His sweet looking He led forth the understanding of His creature by the same wound into His Side within. And then he shewed a fair, delectable place, and large enough for all mankind that shall be saved to rest in peace and in love.” (Ch. 24)

“And therewith He brought to mind His dearworthy blood and precious water which he let pour all out for love. And with the sweet beholding He shewed His blessed heart even cloven in two.” (Ch. 24)

“And with this sweet enjoying, He shewed unto mine understanding, in part, the blessed Godhead… the endless Love that was without beginning, and is, and shall be ever.” (Ch. 24)

“And with this our good Lord said full blissfully: Lo, how that I loved thee, as if He had said: My darling, behold and see thy Lord, thy God that is thy Maker and thine endless joy… and for my love rejoice [thou] with me.” (Ch. 24)

“Behold and see that I loved thee so much ere I died for thee that I would die for thee; and now I have died for thee and suffered willingly that which I may. And now is all my bitter pain and all my hard travail turned to endless joy and bliss to me and to thee.” (Ch. 24)

“How should it now be that thou shouldst anything pray that pleaseth me but that I should full gladly grant it thee? For my pleasing is thy holiness and thine endless joy and bliss with me.” (Ch. 24)

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

(Ephesians 1:9-10, RSV)

For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth”

(2 Timothy 4:8, RSV)

“Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day.”

(Hebrews 12:2, RSV)

“…who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God”

(John 19:34, RSV)

“But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water”

(Isaiah 53:3–4, RSV)

“He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

(Galatians 2:20, RSV)

“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

(John 15:11, RSV)

“These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.”

Catechism of the Catholic Church

“The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the ‘one mediator between God and men.’ But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, ‘the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery’ is offered to all men.” (CCC 618)

“Jesus revealed that God is ‘Father’ in an unheard-of sense: he is Father not only in being Creator; he is eternally Father by his relationship to his only Son.” (CCC 240)

“By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant… He makes himself an offering for sin… and shall make many to be accounted righteous.” (CCC 615)

“The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice… “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner… this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.” (CCC 1367)

“The Word became flesh to make us ‘partakers of the divine nature.’” (CCC 460)

“Christ enables us to live in him all that he himself lived, and he lives it in us.” (CCC 521)

“For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth the ‘wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.'”¹⁷² As Eve was formed from the sleeping Adam’s side, so the Church was born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the cross.” (CCC 766)

“God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life. (CCC 1)

Pope Benedict XVI:

“She understood the core message of God’s love at a time when, even in theology, some currents emphasized God’s justice and harsh judgment more than his mercy.”
(Benedict XVI, General Audience, Julian of Norwich, November 3, 2010, Vatican.va)

St. Catherine of Siena:

“Sweet Jesus, I contemplate your open side as a hidden cellar filled with wine. I enter into it and see the secret of your heart.” (Letter T328/G148, to Fr. Bartolomeo Dominici)

“Do you want to be safe? Then hide yourself within this side. His open side is full of delight and sweetness. It is an open storehouse that souls will never want to leave.” (Letter T127/G59, to a religious)

Reflection Questions for Prayer

How does Christ’s joy in His Passion challenge my understanding of suffering and sacrifice?
In what ways do I see myself as part of Christ’s joy, His crown, and His reward?
Can I trust that God’s plan for my salvation is perfect—even when I cannot see or feel its fullness?
How might Christ be inviting me to enter more deeply into the “delectable place” of His open side—into the refuge of His Sacred Heart?

Closing Prayer (inspired by the Ninth and Tenth Shewing)

Amen.

Fr. James Kubicki S.J. – A Heart on Fire on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Fr. James Kubicki S.J. – A Heart on Fire on Inside the Pages with Kris McGregor

In this episode of Inside the Pages, Fr. James Kubicki discusses his book A Heart on Fire: Rediscovering Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. He explores the meaning and history of this devotion, tracing it back to the early Church rather than starting with St. Margaret Mary. Fr. Kubicki explains that the heart of Jesus represents his whole being, particularly his self-giving love and compassion. Through stories like that of Admiral Jeremiah Denton, he illustrates how trust and surrender to Christ can be transformative even in the darkest trials. This devotion is not sentimental nostalgia, but a profound spiritual path rooted in Scripture, Eucharistic spirituality, and the Church’s tradition.

The Sacred Heart calls Christians to deeper prayer and action. Fr. Kubicki highlights that devotion must be lived out—through practices like the Morning Offering, family consecration, and awareness of Christ’s presence throughout daily life. Far from being a private piety, he presents it as a way of participating in Jesus’ compassionate response to the suffering of the world. The Sacred Heart, he explains, helps move the faithful from intellectual assent to a loving, personal relationship with Christ, guiding them to integrate head and heart in their spiritual lives and sacramental worship.

You can find the book here

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How does understanding the Sacred Heart of Jesus as a symbol of His whole person and love affect your personal relationship with Him?
In what ways can you offer your daily joys and sufferings to Jesus as part of a spiritual “morning offering”?
How does the story of Admiral Denton challenge you to deepen your trust and surrender to Christ in times of hardship?
What does it mean for your home and family life to enthrone the Sacred Heart of Jesus as king and center?
How can devotion to the Sacred Heart lead you to greater awareness of and response to the suffering of others?
Are there aspects of your faith life that remain only intellectual, and how might you allow them to move into your heart?
How can participation in the Eucharist become more personal and prayerful for you through devotion to the Sacred Heart?
What might Jesus be asking you to let go of in your life in order to love more fully with His heart?
How do the lives of saints like St. Gertrude, St. Margaret Mary, or Mother Teresa inspire your own devotion to the Sacred Heart?
What practical steps can you take this week to live out the love of Christ’s heart in your interactions with others?

About the Book

In A Heart on Fire: Rediscovering Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, Rev. James Kubicki, SJ, presents a persuasive and engaging guide to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, an age-old and often misunderstood Catholic devotion. He delves into the rich theological and spiritual roots of the devotion and demonstrates how the faithful may encounter the Sacred Heart of Jesus in one another, scripture, the sacraments, and especially in the Eucharist.

Fr. Kubicki, former national director of the Apostleship of Prayer (now the Pope’s Worldwide Prayer Network), brings to life the rich imagery associated with the devotion’s history and provides a contemporary look at traditional devotions like the Twelve Promises, family consecration and enthronement, the Sacred Heart Badge, the Litany of the Sacred Heart, holy hours, and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

About the Author

Fr. James Kubicki, SJ, serves as a spiritual director at St. Francis de Sales Seminary in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee. He is a popular conference and parish mission speaker, retreat director, and the author of A Heart on Fire and A Year of Daily Offerings.

Kubicki previously served as the national director of the Apostleship of Prayer (now the Pope’s Worldwide Prayer Network) and as the president of St. Francis Mission on South Dakota’s Rosebud Reservation. Kubicki entered the Society of Jesus in 1971 and was ordained in 1983. He has served the Jesuits in numerous capacities including, vocations, priestly formation, and deacon and lay ministry formation.

The Lasting Influence of St. Augustine, Pt. 3 – In Conversation with Dcn. Omar Gutierrez – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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The Lasting Influence of St. Augustine, Pt. 3 – In Conversation with Deacon Omar Gutierrez

Deacon Omar Gutiérrez and Kris McGregor discuss the enduring significance of St. Augustine in Catholic thought, the Church’s spiritual life, and how he may influence Pope Leo XIV’s pontificate. St. Augustine made an immense impact on Western theology, especially his influence on St. Thomas Aquinas, and how this shaped Catholic social teaching through Rerum Novarum. St. Augustine’s deep interior exploration in Confessions resonated with saints like St. Teresa of Avila and St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (aka Edith Stein). St. Augustine’s vision in City of God contrasts the self-centered “city of man” with the divine love found in the “city of God,” presenting to us a framework relevant to contemporary challenges of community, power, and personal meaning.

St. Augustine’s personal journey—his moral struggles, intellectual conversion, and his mother Monica’s faithful intercession—is a mirror for today’s searchers, especially in an era marked by isolation and distraction. Deacon Omar reflects on his own experience with the Augustinian spirit of charity and dialogue, pointing out how their emphasis on unity in essentials, freedom in non-essentials, and charity in all things could guide the Church forward, particularly in Catholic social teaching.

For Part 1 of this conversation, click here.
For Part 2 of this conversation, click here.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How does St. Augustine’s personal conversion story speak to the struggles in your own spiritual journey?
In what ways do you see the tension between the “city of man” and the “city of God” in today’s culture?
How can St. Augustine’s honest self-examination in Confessions inspire deeper prayer and reflection in your life?
What role does community play in your faith, and how might you nurture it more intentionally?
How does the witness of St. Monica challenge you to persevere in love and prayer for others?
Are you seeking comfort and power, or truth and love, in your daily decisions?
How can you cultivate unity in essentials, freedom in non-essentials, and charity in all things?
Where do you see the influence of St. Augustine’s thought in the Church’s social teachings today?
In what ways might you better listen to others as a way of honoring their dignity?
How is God inviting you to help build the city of God in your family, parish, or society?

Deacon Omar Gutiérrez is the President and co-Founder of the Evangelium Institute as well as the Director of the Society for the Propagation of the Faith in the Archdiocese of Omaha.

About his book, “A Summary of Rerum Novarum or On Capital and Labor”

This short introduction provides the historical background for Pope Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum as well as some detail about the pope himself. It also provides a paragraph-by-paragraph summary of the document to better understand the teaching. This is ideal for students of the document and those studying Catholic Social Teaching.

You can buy a copy of the book here.

Ep 6 – The 8th Shewing – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 6: The Eighth Shewing — The Suffering Face of Love

Summary:

In Episode 6, In this powerful episode, we enter the Eighth Revelation of Julian of Norwich—a devastating yet holy vision of Christ’s dying. Julian beholds the gradual drying of Christ’s body, a slow agony revealing the depths of divine love. She reflects on His thirst—both physical and spiritual—and joins in His suffering through a profound union of compassion. Drawing on Isaiah, the Gospel of John, the Catechism, and the witness of mystics like St. Bridget and St. Teresa of Calcutta, this episode explores the mystery of redemptive suffering. Julian’s witness offers not only theological depth but an invitation to gaze upon the Crucified with love and trust.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 6:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XVI-XXI, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).

The Eighth Shewing —The Suffering Face of Love

“I saw His sweet face as it were dry and bloodless with pale dying. And later, more pale, dead, languoring; and then turned more dead unto blue; and then more brown-blue, as the flesh turned more deeply dead…” (Ch. 16)

“This long pining seemed to me as if He had been seven nights dead, dying, at the point of outpassing away, suffering the last pain. And when I said it seemed to me as if He had been seven night dead, it meaneth that the sweet body was so discoloured, so dry, so shrunken, so deathly, and so piteous, as if He had been seven night dead, continually dying. And methought the drying of Christ’s flesh was the most pain, and the last, of His Passion.” (Ch. 16)

“I Thirst” and the Drying of Love

“AND in this dying was brought to my mind the words of Christ: I thirst.
For I saw in Christ a double thirst: one bodily; another spiritual, the which I shall speak of in the Thirty-first Chapter.” (Ch. 17)

“I saw four manner of dryings: the first was bloodlessness; the second was pain following after; the third, hanging up in the air, as men hang a cloth to dry; the fourth, that the bodily Kind asked liquid and there was no manner of comfort ministered to Him in all His woe and distress. Ah! hard and grievous was his pain, but much more hard and grievous it was when the moisture failed and began to dry thus, shrivelling.” (Ch. 17)

“These were the pains that shewed in the blessed head: the first wrought to the dying, while it had moisture; and that other, slow, with shrinking drying, [and] with blowing of the wind from without, that dried and pained Him with cold more than mine heart can think.”(Ch. 17)

“I thought: Is any pain like this? And I was answered in my reason: Hell is another pain: for there is despair. But of all pains that lead to salvation this is the most pain, to see thy Love suffer. How might any pain be more to me than to see Him that is all my life, all my bliss, and all my joy, suffer? Here felt I soothfastly that I loved Christ so much above myself that there was no pain that might be suffered like to that sorrow that I had to [see] Him in pain.”(Ch. 17)

The Wound in the Side and the Opening of the Heart

“And after this, a wond [wound] was shewed in His side, right as it was shewed afore: which He shewed unto me in the same manner as I saw afore, and therewith He brought to mind the dearworthy blood and water which He suffered to be shed out of that same side. … And well I wist that it was He that shewed it. … And in the same shewing suddenly the Trinity filled my heart full of the greatest joy; and I understood that it shall be so in Heaven without end to all that shall come there.” (Ch. 18)

A Mother’s Compassion

“HERE I saw a part of the compassion of our Lady, Saint Mary: for Christ and she were so oned in love that the greatness of her loving was cause of the greatness of her pain. For in this [Shewing] I saw a Substance of Nature’s Love, continued by Grace, that creatures have to Him: which Kind Love was most fully shewed in His sweet Mother, and overpassing; for so much as she loved Him more than all other, her pains passed all other. For ever the higher, the mightier, the sweeter that the love be, the more sorrow it is to the lover to see that body in pain that is loved.” (Ch. 19)

“Here saw I a great oneing betwixt Christ and us, to mine understanding: for when He was in pain, we were in pain.
And all creatures that might suffer pain, suffered with Him: that is to say, all creatures that God hath made to our service. The firmament, the earth, failed for sorrow in their Nature in the time of Christ’s dying. For it belongeth naturally to their property to know Him for their God, in whom all their virtue standeth: when He failed, then behoved it needs to them, because of kindness [between them], to fail with Him, as much as they might, for sorrow of His pains.” (Ch. 19)

Choosing Christ as Heaven

“Thus was I learned to choose Jesus for my Heaven, whom I saw only in pain at that time.”(Ch 19)

“Then had I a proffer in my reason, as if it had been friendly said to me: Look up to Heaven to His Father. And then saw I well, with the faith that I felt, that there was nothing betwixt the Cross and Heaven that might have harmed me… I answered inwardly with all the might of my soul, and said: Nay; I may not: for Thou art my Heaven. For I would liever have been in that pain till Doomsday than to come to Heaven otherwise than by Him.” (Ch 19)

“The outward part is our deadly fleshhood, which is now in pain and woe, and shall be, in this life: whereof I felt much in this time; and that part it was that repented. The inward part is an high, blissful life, which is all in peace and in love: and this was more inwardly felt; and this part is [that] in which mightily, wisely and with steadfast will I chose Jesus to my Heaven.”(Ch 19)

The Measure of Divine Love

“And for every man’s sin that shall be saved He suffered: and every man’s sorrow and desolation He saw, and sorrowed for Kindness and love. (For in as much as our Lady sorrowed for His pains, in so much He suffered sorrow for her sorrow;—and more, in as greatly as the sweet manhood of Him was worthier in Kind.) For as long as He was passible He suffered for us and sorrowed for us; and now He is uprisen and no more passible, yet He suffereth with us.”(Ch 20)

“And I, beholding all this by His grace, saw that the Love of Him was so strong which He hath to our soul that willingly He chose it with great desire, and mildly He suffered it with well-pleasing.”(Ch 20)

“For the soul that beholdeth it thus, when it is touched by grace, it shall verily see that the pains of Christ’s Passion pass all pains: [all pains] that is to say, which shall be turned into everlasting, o’erpassing joys by the virtue of Christ’s Passion.”(Ch 20)

The Promise of Joy

“It is God’s will, as to mine understanding, that we have Three Manners of Beholding His blessed Passion. The First is: the hard Pain that He suffered,—[beholding it] with contrition and compassion.”(Ch 21)

“And I looked for the departing with all my might, and thought to have seen the body all dead; but I saw Him not so. And right in the same time that methought, by the seeming, the life might no longer last… suddenly (I beholding in the same Cross), He changed [the look of] His blessed Countenance. The changing of His blessed Countenance changed mine, and I was as glad and merry as it was possible. Then brought our Lord merrily to my mind: Where is now any point of the pain, or of thy grief? And I was full merry.”(Ch 21)

“And I understood that we be now, in our Lord’s meaning, in His Cross with Him in His pains and His Passion, dying; and we, willingly abiding in the same Cross with His help and His grace unto the last point, suddenly He shall change His Cheer to us, and we shall be with Him in Heaven.”(Ch 21)

“The harder our pains have been with Him in His Cross, the more shall our worship be with Him in His Kingdom.”Ch 21)

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

(Isaiah 53:3–4, RSV)

“He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief… he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows”

(Matthew John 19:34, RSV)

“But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water”

(Romans 8:19, 22, RSV)

“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God… For we know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now”

(Romans 8:18, RSV)

“I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us”

(Isaiah 53:3–4, RSV)

“He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Faith in God the Father Almighty can be put to the test by the experience of evil and suffering. God can sometimes seem to be absent and incapable of stopping evil. But in the most mysterious way God the Father has revealed his almighty power in the voluntary humiliation and Resurrection of his Son, by which he conquered evil. Christ crucified is thus “the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.”¹¹¹ It is in Christ’s Resurrection and exaltation that the Father has shown forth “the immeasurable greatness of his power in us who believe” (CCC 272)

“The Church was born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the cross. ‘The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.’” (CCC 766)

“Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the Cross, where she stood, in keeping with the divine plan… enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering.” (CCC 964)

“By his death, Christ liberates us from sin; by his Resurrection, he opens for us the way to a new life. This new life is above all justification… and it brings about filial adoption so that men become Christ’s brethren” (CCC 654).

“The desire for happiness is of divine origin: God has placed it in the human heart in order to draw man to himself, for he alone can fulfill it.” (CCC 1718)

“The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the ‘one mediator between God and men’ (1 Tim 2:5). But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery is offered to all men.” (CCC 618)

“By his passion and death on the cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion.” (CCC 1505)

Reflection Questions for Prayer

What stirs in your heart as you gaze upon the suffering face of Christ?
How does the image of Christ thirsting—physically and spiritually—deepen your understanding of His love?
In what ways might Christ be inviting you to remain with Him at the Cross, rather than look away?

Closing Prayer (inspired by the Eighth Shewing)

Lord Jesus Christ,
You chose the Cross out of love for every soul.
In Your suffering face, we see the depth of divine mercy.
In Your thirst, we hear the longing of Your Sacred Heart.

You were pierced, dried, and drained for our healing.
You remained, even unto death, so that we would never be alone.
You sorrowed for us—and even now, You suffer with us.

Give us the grace to remain near to You,
To see You not with fear, but with reverent love.
Let us not look away from Your Passion,
But receive it as the saving gift it is.

May Your wounds be our refuge,
Your thirst our call to prayer,
Your death our doorway to joy.

Amen.