Series Archives

WOM4 – Introductory Rite and the Liturgy of the Word – The Way of Mystery with Deacon James Keating – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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The Eucharist and Moral Living Deacon James Keating Kris McGregor Discerning Hearts Podcast

Introductory Rite and the Liturgy of the Word – The Way of Mystery with Deacon James Keating

Deacon James Keating reflects on how the Mass draws us into communion with Christ and one another. The introductory rites are not a mere formality but a spiritual transition, helping us shift focus from worldly concerns to God’s presence. The penitential rite then deepens this awareness by leading us to recognize our sins and our need for mercy, making us receptive to God’s healing love. He stresses that this moment should not be rushed—it is where we confront our unworthiness yet receive Christ’s invitation into holiness. From there, the Liturgy of the Word allows us to enter salvation history. A good way to prepare is by reading the Scriptures beforehand so that, when proclaimed, they resonate more deeply. While homilies play a role in guiding reflection, he reminds listeners that it is ultimately the Holy Spirit who makes God’s word personally transformative.

Deacon Keating confronts misconceptions about the Mass as entertainment. Unlike services built around spectacle, the Catholic liturgy centers on transformation, not distraction. Our interior disposition—through prayer and openness—determines how fully we receive Christ in the Eucharist. This transformation must bear fruit in fellowship. Keating notes that Protestant communities often model a strong sense of shared life, something Catholic parishes can grow in. True fellowship arises when the Eucharist overflows into charity and mutual support, not just private devotion. Staying after Mass, sharing faith conversations, and building community are ways to live out the mystery we receive. The Mass prepares us to hear Christ’s voice of love, to be healed, and to bring that love outward into culture through communion with others.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How do I allow the introductory rites of the Mass to help me shift from daily distractions into awareness of Christ’s presence?
When I pray the penitential rite, do I intentionally recall my sins and open myself to God’s mercy?
How can I prepare for Sunday Mass by spending time with the readings during the week?
Do I listen for the Holy Spirit speaking personally to me during the Liturgy of the Word, beyond what the homilist offers?
Am I seeking entertainment at Mass, or am I open to real transformation through prayer and the Eucharist?
What simple interior prayers can I bring before, during, and after Mass to invite Christ into my heart?
In what ways do I let the Eucharist overflow into charity and fellowship with those in my parish community?
How might I help create or participate in parish life beyond Mass to strengthen true Christian fellowship?
Do I see my parish as the beginning of heaven, even with its flaws, and delight in being with fellow Catholics?
How is Christ calling me through the Mass to bring His love and healing presence into my family, work, and culture?

Deacon James Keating, Ph.D., is a professor of Spiritual Theology and serves as a spiritual director at Kenrick Glennon Seminary in St. Louis, MO.

Check out Deacon Keating’s “Discerning Heart” page

HSE7 – What Has God Elected to Us? – The Heart of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola with Fr. Anthony Wieck S.J. – Discerning Hearts Podcasts

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What Has God Elected to Us? – The Heart of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola with Fr. Anthony Wieck S.J.

Fr. Anthony Wieck and Kris McGregor continue exploring the second week of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. This section has a twofold purpose: first, to grow in knowing, loving, and following Christ more deeply; second, to discern the personal call God has for each individual. St. Ignatius frames this through the “Call of the King,” where Jesus actively invites us to walk, labor, and even suffer alongside Him so that we may also share His joy. Unlike St. Dominic’s focus on the preaching Christ, St. Ignatius leaned on The Imitation of Christ and the lives of the saints, seeing them as models of intimacy with the Lord. The second week requires honest self-knowledge, letting go of self-centered desires, and learning to adopt Christ’s way over our own, even through darkness and sacrifice that leads to resurrection life.

There is a prayer response St. Ignatius proposes: offering oneself entirely to Christ the Eternal King in service and love, even to the point of embracing poverty or misunderstanding if that is the Lord’s will. This offering is not about personal heroism, but a grace-inspired response to God’s love. He stresses the importance of detachment, citing Aquinas: the soul is drawn closer to God as it is freed from worldly attachments. This prepares us for the “Two Standards” meditation, where St. Ignatius shows the contrast between following Christ’s banner or Satan’s. Jesus invites us to embrace suffering with Him, while the enemy tempts with control, comfort, and self-focus. Discernment is key: recognizing inspirations from God versus false promises. The exercises call us to reorder our lives so that Christ—not self—is at the center, living in freedom and generous service.

Discerning Hearts Catholic Reflection Questions:

How is Jesus personally inviting me to walk, labor, and even suffer with Him so as to share in His joy?
What attachments or self-centered desires am I being called to release in order to freely follow Christ?
In what ways do I see the “Call of the King” shaping my understanding of my vocation or state of life?
How do the lives of the saints inspire me without discouraging me, reminding me that their holiness was also a journey?
Where in my life am I tempted by the false “standard” of comfort, control, or worldly success instead of Christ’s way?
How can I more fully live the Copernican shift of making Christ, not myself, the center of my life?
What does it look like in my daily circumstances to respond generously to the Lord’s love with detachment and freedom?

Fr. Anthony Wieck is a Jesuit priest of the Central & Southern province. Sixth of nine children, raised on a farm in Oregon, Fr. Anthony began religious life in 1994, spending his first five years of formation in Rome, Italy, studying at the Casa Balthasar and the Gregorian. The former was under the watchful patronage of Pope Benedict XVI (then-Card. Joseph Ratzinger). Fr. Anthony currently acts as retreat master at White House Jesuit Retreat in St. Louis, Missouri. He also offers spiritual direction at the St. Louis diocesan seminary for 25 future priests there.

SD4 – Embracing Consolation, Understanding Desolation – Spiritual Desolation: Be Aware, Understand, Take Action with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Embracing Consolation, Understanding Desolation – Spiritual Desolation: Be Aware, Understand, Take Action with Fr. Timothy Gallagher

Fr. Timothy Gallagher and Kris McGregor explore St. Ignatius of Loyola’s teaching on spiritual desolation, distinguishing between its spiritual and non-spiritual forms. Non-spiritual desolation arises from physical or emotional depletion—like fatigue, illness, or stress—which can influence one’s prayer life if not addressed. Examples include the mother losing sleep to care for a sick child or the priest exhausted after Holy Week. Such tiredness, embraced in love, can be holy but still requires recovery. St. Ignatius’ rules, however, focus specifically on spiritual desolation: heaviness of heart in the relationship with God, discouragement in prayer, or the sense of distance from the Lord. St. Teresa of Avila’s advice—“take care of the body for the love of God”—is highlighted, since physical well-being supports spiritual vitality and prevents the enemy from exploiting human weakness.

Spiritual desolation manifests: darkness of soul, disturbance, attraction to lesser distractions, agitation, loss of confidence, discouragement, absence of love, and the sense of being cut off from God. These movements are lies from the enemy, aiming to erode spiritual growth. The remedy is awareness, recognition of the falsehood, and decisive action—whether resisting distractions, choosing Scripture over the phone, or persevering in prayer. Consolation and desolation are direct opposites, not only in feelings but also in the thoughts they inspire. Consolation leads to hope, gratitude, and openness to God, while desolation brings doubts, lies, and withdrawal. The key is to act promptly before discouragement snowballs, trusting that small, courageous steps open the way for grace and renewed closeness with the Lord.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions:

When have I noticed spiritual desolation in my life, and how did I respond?
What signs help me distinguish spiritual desolation from ordinary emotional or physical fatigue?
How well do I “take care of the body for the love of God” through sleep, nutrition, exercise, and rest?
Where do I feel a pull toward “low and earthly things,” and what grace do I need to resist it?
When discouraging thoughts arise, do I name them as lies and counter them with truth in Christ?
What small, concrete step can I take today to pray when I least feel like praying?
How might I “make space for God” by limiting screens, noise, and constant input this week?
Which healthy human remedies (friendship, counseling, medical care, recreation) would support my spiritual life right now?
When consolation comes, do I form and follow through on good resolutions promptly?
When desolation comes, do I avoid making changes to my spiritual commitments?

From Setting the Captives Free: Personal Reflections on Ignatian Discernment of Spirits:

“Rule 4 is the companion to rule 3 and describes its exact opposite: spiritual desolation. As in rule 3, Ignatius does not give a definition but rather a list of experiences of spiritual desolation. I have italicized each:

Fourth Rule. The fourth is of spiritual desolation. I call desolation all the contrary of the third rule, such asdarkness of soul, disturbance in it, movement to low and earthly things, disquiet from various agitations and temptations, moving to lack of confidence, without hope,without love, finding oneself totally slothful, tepid, sad and, as if separated from one’s Creator and Lord. For just as consolation is contrary to desolation, in the same way the thoughts that come from consolation are contrary to the thoughts that come from desolation.”

For more information on how to obtain copies of Fr. Gallaghers’s various books and audio which are available for purchase, please visit his website: frtimothygallagher.org

For the other episodes in this series check out Fr. Timothy Gallagher’s “Discerning Hearts” page

Special Encore: The Canonization of St. Teresa of Calcutta – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Special Encore: The Canonization of St. Teresa of Calcutta – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff

In this special encore, Msgr. Esseff reflects on his pilgrimage to Rome for the canonization of St. Teresa of Calcutta. He shares personal stories about the journey, the people he encountered, and the profound spiritual experiences he had during the trip.

In his retelling, he describes how 16 pilgrims, many with personal connections to Mother Teresa, made their way to Rome. He recalls the challenges of the journey, particularly the intense heat, and how enduring those difficulties brought a deeper connection to God’s love, much like Mother Teresa’s own life of sacrifice and how her legacy continues to touch people worldwide, with her humble and selfless love acting as a powerful witness.

The canonization itself was a profound moment, with Msgr. Esseff consecrating himself to the Blessed Virgin Mary, a devotion encouraged by both Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II. He reflects on the universality of the event, with people of all races and backgrounds uniting in faith. This gathering was reminiscent of Pentecost, with a shared sense of joy, love, and the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How does enduring physical or emotional suffering, like the heat during the canonization, bring you closer to God’s love?
In what ways does Mother Teresa’s life inspire you to reach out and touch others with God’s love?
How can Mary’s “emptiness” and total openness to God’s will influence your spiritual life and help you better serve others?
Have you ever received more from a spiritual journey or moment of prayer than you anticipated? How did it deepen your faith?
How does the universality of the Church, as witnessed during the canonization with people from all over the world, enhance your understanding of being part of the Body of Christ?
In what areas of your life can you surrender more fully to God, trusting in His strength to help you endure challenges?
How can you imitate Mary’s spirit of constant praise and openness to God’s will in your everyday actions?

Carrier of God’s Tender Love and Mercy

“Lord Jesus, merciful Face of the Father, you came to give us the Good News of the Father’s mercy and tenderness.
We thank you for the gift of our dearest Mother, Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, who will be canonized in this Jubilee Year of Mercy. You chose her to be your presence, your love and compassion to the brokenhearted, the unwanted, the abandoned and the dying. She responded wholeheartedly to your cry, ‘I Thirst,’ by the holiness of her life and humble works of love to the poorest of the poor.

We pray, through her intercession, for the grace to experience your merciful love and share it in our own families, communities and with all our suffering brothers and sisters. Help us to give our “hearts to love and hands to serve” after the example of Mother Teresa. Lord Jesus, bless every member of our family, our parish, our diocese, our country, especially those most in need, that we all may be transformed by your merciful love. Amen.”

Text © Mother Teresa Center of the Missionaries of Charity

Msgr. John A. Esseff is a Roman Catholic priest in the Diocese of Scranton. Msgr. Esseff served as a retreat director and confessor to Saint Teresa of Calcutta. He continues to offer direction and retreats for the sisters of the Missionaries of Charity. Msgr. Esseff encountered St. Padre Pio, who would become a spiritual father to him. He has lived in areas around the world, serving in the Pontifical missions, a Catholic organization established by Pope St. John Paul II to bring the Good News to the world, especially to the poor. He continues to serve as a retreat leader and director to bishops, priests and sisters and seminarians, and other religious leaders.

WOM3 – The Paschal Mystery – The Way of Mystery with Deacon James Keating – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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The Paschal Mystery – The Way of Mystery with Deacon James Keating

Deacon James Keating and Kris McGregor explore how the Paschal Mystery and the Eucharistic liturgy are inseparably united. The Mass is not merely about attendance or obligation but about making oneself available to be taken into Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. True participation requires an interior openness—allowing Christ to shape our hearts and draw us into communion with both Him and others. Rather than reducing Mass to duty, fellowship, or a fleeting emotional experience, he invites listeners to see it as an intentional, interior response to the presence of God breaking into time.

Conversion is a gradual process. Everyone comes to the Eucharist at different stages of their spiritual journey, carrying joy, grief, or indifference. We need to bring our authentic state—whether delight or sorrow—before God, trusting that Christ works within those realities. Mass is both personal and communal: it reverences each individual’s encounter with Christ while drawing the community together in communion. Our identity flows from the Eucharist, where Christ gives us Himself and plants the seed of resurrection within us—a gift that sustains us through life, death, and into eternity.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How do I prepare my heart to be truly available to Christ when I go to Mass?
In what ways do I sometimes reduce the Eucharist to an obligation rather than an encounter with Christ?
Am I attentive to my interior disposition at Mass, or do I approach it on autopilot?
How open am I to letting Christ take me into His life, death, and resurrection during the liturgy?
Do I bring both my joys and sorrows honestly before God in the Eucharist?
How do I recognize and respect that others in the community may be at different points in their spiritual journey?
In what ways do I allow my emotions—or lack of them—to determine my participation at Mass?
Do I see the Mass as both a personal encounter with Christ and a communal act of worship?
How do I live out my Eucharistic identity in daily life beyond the church walls?
What steps can I take to deepen my intentional presence at the Eucharistic liturgy each week?

Deacon James Keating, Ph.D., is a professor of Spiritual Theology and serves as a spiritual director at Kenrick Glennon Seminary in St. Louis, MO.

Check out Deacon Keating’s “Discerning Heart” page

HSE6 – Ignatian Prayer – The Heart of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola with Fr. Anthony Wieck S.J. – Discerning Hearts Podcasts

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Ignatian Prayer – The Heart of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola with Fr. Anthony Wieck S.J.

Fr. Anthony Wieck and Kris McGregor explore the Call of the King meditation in the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. Asking for grace in prayer should flow from openness rather than self-centered wants. The Ignatian approach begins with presenting one’s heartfelt desires to God, but with a readiness to let Him transform those desires. This requires humility, silence, and listening before speaking. He draws on Mary’s “fiat” as the model attitude, showing how prayer is not about control but about receptivity to God’s will. Fr. Wieck also introduces the forgotten word “depromptitude,” describing it as spiritual pliability—a readiness to move where God leads, like clay in the potter’s hands or a dancer yielding to the lead.

There is also the colloquy, St. Ignatius’ method of intimate dialogue with Christ or a person of the Trinity at the close of prayer. Far from being channeling, it is a simple and personal conversation, shaped by what has been contemplated in scripture. Imagination plays a role by adding “flesh to the skeleton” of the Gospel stories, helping them come alive without changing their core truth. This imaginative engagement is meant to draw the soul beyond itself into God’s life, fostering deeper relational trust and healing. The fruit of Ignatian prayer is not in imagined details but in being drawn more fully into the life of Christ, allowing one’s identity to be found within Him rather than apart from Him.

Discerning Hearts Catholic Reflection Questions:

How do I bring my desires before God—with open hands, or with an attitude of control?
In what ways can I cultivate Mary’s “fiat” spirit of surrender in my daily prayer?
Do I take time to quiet myself and listen before asking for grace?
Where might God be inviting me to grow in flexibility and readiness, like clay in the potter’s hands?
How do I experience the colloquy as a personal conversation with Christ or the Trinity?
What role does imagination play in helping me enter more deeply into the Gospel scenes?
Am I willing to let God reshape or redirect the desires I bring into prayer?
How do I recognize the fruits of prayer in my life, especially in being drawn closer into Christ’s life?

SD3 – Insights into Rules 10 through 14 – Spiritual Desolation: Be Aware, Understand, Take Action with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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Insights into Rules 10 through 14 – Spiritual Desolation: Be Aware, Understand, Take Action with Fr. Timothy Gallagher

Fr. Timothy Gallagher and Kris McGregor explore St. Ignatius of Loyola’s Rules 10–14. Fr. Gallagher explains how times of consolation are opportunities not only to rejoice in God’s grace but also to gather strength for inevitable periods of desolation, much like Joseph storing grain for famine. Rule 11 invites humility in consolation and trust in God’s power during desolation, helping us avoid overconfidence when prayer feels easy or despair when it feels dry. Such experiences, though painful, can become occasions for deeper prayer and growth. Desolation itself is never from God but permitted in His providence so that, with grace, we may resist discouragement and grow in freedom.

The later rules shift toward understanding temptation. Rule 12 counsels resisting temptation immediately, before it grows overwhelming, while Rule 13 warns against secrecy and highlights the freedom that comes from sharing struggles with a wise confessor or spiritual companion. Rule 14 addresses our most vulnerable points, urging self-knowledge so that weakness can become strength through grace. Fr. Gallagher ties this teaching to a broader message of Christian hope, drawing on Scripture, St. John Paul II, and even Tolkien to show that God’s redemption always surpasses evil. We need to seek accompaniment, cultivate awareness of God’s presence in daily life, and live with humility and trust, becoming agents of renewal through the quiet witness of a discerning life.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions:

In a season of consolation, how can I “store grain” for the next famine through concrete habits of prayer and virtue?
Where might I be overextending myself when things feel easy, and what humble limit would keep me steady?
When desolation returns, what is one truth about God I will cling to first?
What small, practical action can I take today that contradicts a tempting thought at its very beginning?
Which recurring fear or shame do I still keep hidden, and whom could I safely tell this week (confessor or trusted guide)?
What is the weakest point in my “castle walls,” and what grace-building practice will I place there?
How has the Lord recently shown me His nearness, and how will I remember it when prayer feels dry?
When I notice spiritual heaviness, what change in routine will I avoid making until light returns?
How will I practice the daily Examen to notice God’s movements and the enemy’s suggestions?
What hope from Scripture can I memorize now to pray in dark hours?

From Setting the Captives Free: Personal Reflections on Ignatian Discernment of Spirits

“Tenth Rule. The tenth: Let the one who is in consolation think how he will conduct himself in the desolation which will come after, taking new strength for that time.

Eleventh Rule. The eleventh: Let one who is consoled seek to humble himself and lower himself as much as he can, think- ing of how little he is capable in the time of desolation with- out such grace or consolation. On the contrary, let one who is in desolation think that he can do much with God’s sufficient grace to resist all his enemies, taking strength in his Creator and Lord.

Twelfth Rule. The twelfth: The enemy acts like a woman in being weak when faced with strength and strong when faced with weakness. For, as it is proper to a woman, when she is fighting with some man, to lose heart and to flee when the man confronts her firmly, and, on the contrary, if the man begins to flee, losing heart, the anger, vengeance and ferocity of the woman grow greatly and know no bounds, in the same way, it is proper to the enemy to weaken and lose heart, flee- ing and ceasing his temptations when the person who is exer- cising himself in spiritual things confronts the temptations of the enemy firmly, doing what is diametrically opposed to them; and, on the contrary, if the person who is exercising himself begins to be afraid and lose heart in suffering the temptations, there is no beast so fierce on the face of the earth as the enemy of human nature in following out his damnable intention with such growing malice.

Thirteenth Rule. The thirteenth: Likewise he conducts him- self as a false lover in wishing to remain secret and not berevealed. For a dissolute man who, speaking with evil inten- tion, makes dishonorable advances to a daughter of a good father or a wife of a good husband, wishes his words and persuasions to be secret, and the contrary displeases him very much, when the daughter reveals to her father or the wife to her husband his false words and depraved intention, because he easily perceives that he will not be able to succeed with the undertaking begun. In the same way, when the enemy of human nature brings his wiles and persuasions to the just soul, he wishes and desires that they be received and kept in secret; but when one reveals them to one’s good confessor or to another spiritual person, who knows his deceits and malicious designs, it weighs on him very much, because he perceives that he will not be able to succeed with the mali- cious undertaking he has begun, since his manifest deceits have been revealed.

Fourteenth Rule. The fourteenth: Likewise he conducts him- self as a leader, intent upon conquering and robbing what he desires. For, just as a captain and leader of an army in the field, pitching his camp and exploring the fortifications and defenses of a stronghold, attacks it at the weakest point, in the same way the enemy of human nature, roving about, looks in turn at all our theological, cardinal and moral vir- tues; and where he finds us weakest and most in need for our eternal salvation, there he attacks us and attempts to take us.”

Father Timothy M. Gallagher, O.M.V., was ordained in 1979 as a member of the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, a religious community dedicated to retreats and spiritual formation according to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. Fr. Gallagher is featured on the EWTN series “Living the Discerning Life: The Spiritual Teachings of St. Ignatius of Loyola”. For more information on how to obtain copies of Fr. Gallaghers’s various books and audio which are available for purchase, please visit his website: frtimothygallagher.org

For the other episodes in this series check out Fr. Timothy Gallagher’s “Discerning Hearts” page

The Gift of Nothing: Finding Everything in the Eucharist – Building a Kingdom of Love with Msgr. John Esseff – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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In this episode of Building a Kingdom of Love, Msgr. John Esseff and Kris McGregor reflect on the meaning of “nothing” through a children’s story, The Gift of Nothing by Patrick McDonnell. They discuss how true humility allows us to recognize that what we have on our own is “nothing,” but when united with God, that “nothing” becomes filled with His infinite love and possibility.

The heart of their reflection centers on the Eucharist. Though it may appear outwardly as “nothing”—simple bread and wine—it is in fact the very presence of Christ, the Bread of Life. Msgr. Esseff shares that only through deep intimacy with Jesus in the Eucharist can people truly experience healing, love, and transformation. Without that personal encounter, many fail to realize the profound gift being offered.

They explore how Eucharistic adoration opens the way to intimacy with God, helping the soul hear Christ’s words: “As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you.” This love is not abstract but deeply personal, allowing individuals to find their true worth and extend that love to family, friends, and even those most difficult to love.

The conversation also touches on the fears people have of surrendering fully to God—fearing loss of self—when in truth, giving God “nothing” allows Him to fill us with “everything.” They use the image of nuclear power to describe how Christ’s presence in the Eucharist radiates divine fire into the soul, turning a person into a living source of grace for others.

Finally, they connect this with real life: intimacy with Jesus enables transformation in marriages, families, parishes, and society. Without this living encounter, many Catholics remain stagnant, but with it, hearts are healed and renewed. The call is clear: return to the Eucharist, adore Him, and allow His love to ignite every part of life.

Discerning Hearts Spiritual Reflection Questions:

How does the story of The Gift of Nothing invite you to reflect on the meaning of humility in your own life?
What does it mean to recognize that, apart from God, we have “nothing,” yet with Him we receive “everything”?
How do you personally experience intimacy with Christ in the Eucharist or in Eucharistic adoration?
What fears or attachments might keep you from fully surrendering to God’s love?
When have you felt God speak to you personally with the words: “As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you” (John 15:9)?
How can the Eucharist transform not only your own heart but also your relationships with family, friends, or those who are difficult to love?
What practical step can you take this week to deepen your devotion to the Eucharist and allow Christ’s love to radiate through you to others?

Ep 11 – The 13th Shewing pt. 3 – All Shall Be Well w/ Kris McGregor – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts

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All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Episode 11: The Thirteenth Shewing (Part 3) —
Sin, Contrition, and the Tenderness of God’s Love

Summary:

In this episode, we are guided into a deeper into the closing chapters of the Thirteenth Shewing. Julian confronts the painful reality of sin, but also the astonishing way God transforms even our wounds into worship. She sees how contrition, compassion, and longing for God purify the soul and prepare it for heaven, and how shame is turned into joy. Julian insists there is no harder hell than sin itself, yet reminds us that Christ’s mercy always seeks to heal and restore. Through her visions, she teaches us to hate sin for love of God while endlessly loving the soul as God loves it. This episode concludes with Julian’s reassurance that we are kept securely in God’s mercy, called to live lives of repentance, prayer, and sacramental grace as we await the day when truly “all shall be well.

For other episodes in this series visit: All Shall Be Well: A Journey Through Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love with Kris McGregor

Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 11:

From Revelations of Divine Love, Long Text, Chapters XXXVII-XL, trans. Grace Warrack, Methuen & Co., 1901 (PDF edition).

The Universality of Sin and the Tenderness of God

“GOD brought to my mind that I should sin. And for pleasance that I had in beholding of Him, I attended not readily to that shewing; and our Lord full mercifully abode, and gave me grace to attend. And this shewing I took singularly to myself; but by all the gracious comfort that followeth, as ye shall see, I was learned to take it for all mine even-Christians: all in general and nothing in special: though our Lord shewed me that I should sin, by me alone is understood all.”(Ch. 37)

When Sin Is Turned to Worship

“Also God shewed that sin shall be no shame to man, but worship. For right as to every sin is answering a pain by truth, right so for every sin, to the same soul is given a bliss by love: right as diverse sins are punished with diverse pains according as they be grievous, right so shall they be rewarded with diverse joys in Heaven according as they have been painful and sorrowful to the soul in earth. For the soul that shall come to Heaven is precious to God, and the place so worshipful that the goodness of God suffereth never that soul to sin that shall come there without that the which sin shall be rewarded; and it is made known without end, and blissfully restored by overpassing worship.” (Ch. 38)

The Three Medicines of the Soul

“As long as we are in this life, what time that we by our folly turn us to the beholding of the reproved, tenderly our Lord God toucheth us and blissfully calleth us, saying in our soul: Let be all thy love, my dearworthy child: turn thee to me — I am enough to thee — and enjoy in thy Saviour and in thy salvation. And that this is our Lord’s working in us, I am sure the soul that hath understanding therein by grace shall see it and feel it.

And though it be so that this deed be truly taken for the general Man, yet it excludeth not the special. For what our good Lord will do by His poor creatures, it is now unknown to me.” (Ch. 39)

Hating Sin, Loving the Soul

“But now if any man or woman because of all this spiritual comfort that is aforesaid, be stirred by folly to say or to think: If this be true, then were it good to sin so as to have the more meed, or else to charge the less guilt to sin, beware of this stirring: for verily if it come it is untrue, and of the enemy of the same true love that teacheth us that we should hate sin only for love. I am sure by mine own feeling, the more that any kind soul seeth this in the courteous love of our Lord God, the lother he is to sin and the more he is ashamed. For if afore us were laid together all the pains in Hell and in Purgatory and in Earth, death and other, and by itself sin, we should rather choose all that pain than sin. For sin is so vile and so greatly to be hated that it may be likened to no pain which is not sin. And to me was shewed no harder hell than sin. For a kind soul hath no hell but sin.” (Ch. 40)

“And [when] we give our intent to love and meekness, by the working of mercy and grace we are made all fair and clean. As mighty and as wise as God is to save men, so willing He is. For Christ Himself is [the] ground of all the laws of Christian men, and He taught us to do good against ill: here may we see that He is Himself this charity, and doeth to us as He teacheth us to do. For He willeth that we be like Him in wholeness of endless love to ourself and to our even-Christians: no more than His love is broken to us for our sin, no more willeth He that our love be broken to ourself and to our even-Christians: but [that we] endlessly hate the sin and endlessly love the soul, as God loveth it. Then shall we hate sin like as God hateth it, and love the soul as God loveth it. And this word that He said is an endless comfort: I keep thee securely.” (Ch. 40)

Scripture Featured

(Translations used: Revised Standard Version [RSV] )

(1 John 1:8–9)

“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

(Romans 5:20)

“Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more”

Catechism of the Catholic Church

“Sin is present in human history; any attempt to ignore it or to give this dark reality other names would be futile.” (CCC 386)

“To try to understand what sin is, one must first recognize the profound relation of man to God, for only in this relationship is the evil of sin unmasked in its true identity as humanity’s rejection of God and opposition to him, even as it continues to weigh heavy on human life and history.” (CCC 386)

“There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer.” (CCC 605)

“Sin is an offense against God: ‘Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight.’ Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it.” (CCC 1805)

“Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are at the same time reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins. This sacrament imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles.” (CCC 1422)

“The practice of all the virtues is animated and inspired by charity, which ‘binds everything together in perfect harmony.’ It is the form of the virtues; it articulates and orders them among themselves; it is the source and goal of their Christian practice.” (CCC 1827).

Reflection Questions for Prayer

1. Julian tells us that sin is “no harder hell” than itself, yet God keeps us securely in His love. How does this shape the way you see your own struggles with sin?
2. She urges us to endlessly hate sin but endlessly love the soul. In your life, what does it mean to hold that balance in relationships with others and with yourself?
3. Julian’s witness is that mercy, compassion, and longing for God turn wounds into worship. Where do you see God already transforming sorrow into joy in your journey??

Closing Prayer

Lord Jesus Christ,
You who revealed to Julian that all shall be well,
teach us to hate sin as You do,
but to love the soul as You love.
Grant us contrition to be cleansed,
compassion to be made ready,
and holy longing to be made worthy of heaven.
Keep us securely in Your mercy,
and let every wound be healed into worship.
May we walk in the hope of Your promise,
until we are one with You forever.

Amen.

St. Augustine of Hippo, Part 2 – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson – Discerning Hearts Podcast

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St. Augustine of Hippo, Part 2 – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson

Born: 13 November 354
Died: 28 August 430

In part 2 of their conversation, Dr. Matthew Bunson and Kris McGregor explore the transformative journey of St. Augustine from his baptism in Italy to his return to Africa, where he established a monastic community and eventually became a priest and bishop. Augustine’s profound transformation and commitment to spiritual renewal equipped him to compassionately address heresies like Donatism and Pelagianism, emphasizing the Church’s teachings on the efficacy of the sacraments and grace.

St. Augustine’s pastoral nature, his focus on communicating the faith in accessible ways, show his deep concern for individuals’ relationships with God. They also discuss the challenges Augustine faced during the Vandal invasion of North Africa, his final days filled with prayer and sorrow, and the lasting impact of his works, particularly “The Confessions,” which serves as a roadmap for spiritual growth.

His humility, intellectual brilliance, and dedication to the Church, makes him a timeless figure whose teachings continue to resonate in the Church today.

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

How has the sanctifying grace of God transformed your life and deepened your commitment to constant renewal?
In what ways can you, like St. Augustine, approach those in error with compassion rather than intellectual superiority?
How do you understand and appreciate the teaching that Christ is the true minister of the sacraments, regardless of the priest’s worthiness?
How can you apply St. Augustine’s example of pastoral care, balancing intellectual rigor with a deep concern for the well-being of individuals?
In your efforts to evangelize, how can you simplify the message of the Gospel to make it accessible to all, as St. Augustine did?
Reflect on the humility required to confess your sins openly—what lessons can you draw from St. Augustine’s “Confessions” for your own spiritual journey?
How do you seek and experience the true rest that comes from surrendering to God’s love, as St. Augustine expressed in his famous dictum about the restlessness of the human heart?

From Vatican.va, an excerpt from the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI General Audience 2008:

“After his Baptism, Augustine decided to return to Africa with his friends, with the idea of living a community life of the monastic kind at the service of God. However, while awaiting their departure in Ostia, his mother fell ill unexpectedly and died shortly afterwards, breaking her son’s heart. Having returned to his homeland at last, the convert settled in Hippo for the very purpose of founding a monastery. In this city on the African coast he was ordained a priest in 391, despite his reticence, and with a few companions began the monastic life which had long been in his mind, dividing his time between prayer, study and preaching. All he wanted was to be at the service of the truth. He did not feel he had a vocation to pastoral life but realized later that God was calling him to be a pastor among others and thus to offer people the gift of the truth. He was ordained a Bishop in Hippo four years later, in 395. Augustine continued to deepen his study of Scripture and of the texts of the Christian tradition and was an exemplary Bishop in his tireless pastoral commitment: he preached several times a week to his faithful, supported the poor and orphans, supervised the formation of the clergy and the organization of mens’ and womens’ monasteries. In short, the former rhetorician asserted himself as one of the most important exponents of Christianity of that time. He was very active in the government of his Diocese – with remarkable, even civil, implications – in the more than 35 years of his Episcopate, and the Bishop of Hippo actually exercised a vast influence in his guidance of the Catholic Church in Roman Africa and, more generally, in the Christianity of his time, coping with religious tendencies and tenacious, disruptive heresies such as Manichaeism, Donatism and Pelagianism, which endangered the Christian faith in the one God, rich in mercy.

And Augustine entrusted himself to God every day until the very end of his life: smitten by fever, while for almost three months his Hippo was being besieged by vandal invaders, the Bishop – his friend Possidius recounts in his Vita Augustini – asked that the penitential psalms be transcribed in large characters, “and that the sheets be attached to the wall, so that while he was bedridden during his illness he could see and read them and he shed constant hot tears” (31, 2). This is how Augustine spent the last days of his life. He died on 28 August 430, when he was not yet 76. We will devote our next encounters to his work, his message and his inner experience.”

For more visit Vatican.va

For more from Dr. Matthew Bunson, check out his Discerning Hearts page.

Dr. Matthew E. Bunson is a Register senior editor and a senior contributor to EWTN News. For the past 20 years, he has been active in the area of Catholic social communications and education, including writing, editing, and teaching on a variety of topics related to Church history, the papacy, the saints and Catholic culture. He is faculty chair at Catholic Distance University, a senior fellow of the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, and the author or co-author of over 50 books including The Encyclopedia of Catholic History, The Pope Encyclopedia, We Have a Pope! Benedict XVI, The Saints Encyclopedia and best-selling biographies of St. Damien of Molokai and St. Kateri Tekakwitha.

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Full Julian of Norwich Quotations Used in Episode 11:

The Universality of Sin and the Tenderness of God

When Sin Is Turned to Worship

The Three Medicines of the Soul

Hating Sin, Loving the Soul

Scripture Featured

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Reflection Questions for Prayer

Closing Prayer

St. Augustine of Hippo, Part 2 – The Doctors of the Church: The Charism of Wisdom with Dr. Matthew Bunson

Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions

From Vatican.va, an excerpt from the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI General Audience 2008:

For more visit Vatican.va

Episode 11: The Thirteenth Shewing (Part 3) —
Sin, Contrition, and the Tenderness of God’s Love