BTP-LOT15 – Stages of Spiritual Growth – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

Stages of Spiritual Growth – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore St. Teresa of Ávila’s stages of prayer, from active meditation to mystical contemplation. Using metaphors of drawing water from a well and receiving a spark of fire from God, Dr. Lilles illustrates the journey from effortful prayer to receptive transformation, spiritual maturity, and union with God; hinting at discussions on mystical phenomena in Teresa’s life and her unwavering commitment to love and mission in the Church.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. Understanding St. Teresa’s Stages of Prayer: How do St. Teresa of Ávila’s stages of prayer, from active meditation to mystical contemplation, resonate with your own spiritual journey?
  2. Metaphors of Water and Fire: Reflect on the metaphors of drawing water from a well and receiving a spark of fire from God. How do these images deepen your understanding of prayer as both effortful and receptive?
  3. Recollection and Spiritual Maturity: Consider the concept of recollection and its significance in deepening one’s prayer life. How can cultivating recollection lead to spiritual maturity and a closer union with God?
  4. Embracing Spiritual Dryness: St. Teresa speaks of embracing times of spiritual dryness and trusting in God’s timing. How do you navigate periods of spiritual aridity in your own life, and how does St. Teresa’s wisdom inform your approach?
  5. Love and Mission in the Church: Reflect on St. Teresa’s unwavering commitment to love and mission within the Church, even amidst profound experiences of prayer. How can her example inspire you to integrate contemplation with active service and mission?

An excerpt from Chapter 11, discussed in this episode:

“Of those who are beginners in prayer, we may say, that they are those who draw the water up out of the well—a process which, as I have said, is very laborious; for they must be wearied in keeping the senses recollected, and this is a great labour, because the senses have been hitherto accustomed to distractions. It is necessary for beginners to accustom themselves to disregard what they hear or see, and to put it away from them during the time of prayer; they must be alone, and in retirement think over their past life. Though all must do this many times, beginners as well as those more advanced; all, however, must not do so equally, as I shall show hereafter. Beginners at first suffer much, because they are not convinced that they are penitent for their sins; and yet they are, because they are so sincerely resolved on serving God. They must strive to meditate on the life of Christ, and the understanding is wearied thereby. Thus far we can advance of ourselves—that is, by the grace of God—for without that, as every one knows, we never can have one good thought.

This is beginning to draw water up out of the well. God grant there may be water in it! That, however, does not depend on us; we are drawing it, and doing what we can towards watering the flowers. So good is God, that when, for reasons known to His Majesty—perhaps for our greater good—it is His will the well should be dry, He Himself preserves the flowers without water—we, like good gardeners, doing what lies in our power—and makes our virtues grow. By water here I mean tears, and if there be none, then tenderness and an inward feeling of devotion.

What, then, will he do here who sees that, for many days, he is conscious only of aridity, disgust, dislike, and so great an unwillingness to go to the well for water, that he would give it up altogether, if he did not remember that he has to please and serve the Lord of the garden; if he did not trust that his service was not in vain, and did not hope for some gain by a labour so great as that of lowering the bucket into the well so often, and drawing it up without water in it? It will happen that he is often unable to move his arms for that purpose, or to have one good thought: working with the understanding is drawing water out of the well.”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

BTP-LOT14 – The Journey of Prayer – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

The Journey of Prayer – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor discuss the transformative journey of prayer as experienced and taught by St. Teresa of Avila. Dr. Lilles highlights St. Teresa’s autobiographical work as not just a recount of her life but as an instructional guide on the spiritual journey toward deeper communion with God through prayer.

St. Teresa’s teachings emphasize the progression through different stages or degrees of prayer, which she explores more deeply in her masterpiece, “The Interior Castle.” This progression reflects a soul’s journey from initial efforts in prayer, characterized by personal exertion and devotion, towards the profound experiences of mystical prayer, where God takes the initiative and intimately unites with the soul.

The focus of this episode is on St. Teresa’s use of vivid metaphors, like drawing water from a well and the soul as a garden, to describe the nurturing of spiritual virtues through prayer. These stages of prayer, from vocal and meditative prayer to the more advanced states of recollection, quiet, and ultimately union with God, are accessible to all baptized Christians as part of their spiritual heritage and call to holiness.

Dr. Lilles also addresses common challenges and misconceptions about spiritual progress, emphasizing the importance of humility, confidence in God’s grace, and openness to the transformative power of divine love. He encourages listeners to engage deeply with St. Teresa’s writings and to recognize the universal call to a profound spiritual life grounded in prayer.

This episode serves as a compelling invitation to deepen one’s prayer life by following the path laid out by St. Teresa of Avila, understanding prayer not just as a practice but as a journey of love, transformation, and intimate union with God.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. How does St. Teresa of Avila’s metaphor of drawing water from a well resonate with your own prayer life and efforts to nurture spiritual virtues?
  2. Reflect on the progression from vocal prayer to mystical prayer in your life. Have you experienced moments where you felt God was taking the initiative in your prayer?
  3. St. Teresa emphasizes humility in prayer. How do you understand humility in the context of your spiritual journey, and how can you cultivate a more humble approach to God?
  4. Consider the metaphor of the soul as a garden. What ‘flowers’ or virtues are you currently watering through your prayer, and what steps can you take to cultivate them more fully?
  5. St. Teresa describes different stages of prayer, including the prayer of quiet and union with God. Have you encountered these states in your prayer life, and how have they transformed your relationship with God?
  6. Reflect on the challenges and barriers you face in deepening your prayer life. How can St. Teresa’s teachings help you overcome these obstacles and grow in intimacy with God?
  7. Prayer is both a personal journey and a way to draw closer to the community of the Church. How does your prayer life connect you with the wider Church, and how can you use your experiences to support and encourage others in their spiritual journeys?

An excerpt from Chapter 11, discussed in this episode:

“I speak now of those who begin to be the servants of love; that seems to me to be nothing else but to resolve to follow Him in the way of prayer, who has loved us so much. It is a dignity so great, that I have a strange joy in thinking of it; for servile fear vanishes at once, if we are, as we ought to be, in the first degree. O Lord of my soul, and my good, how is it that, when a soul is determined to love Thee—doing all it can, by forsaking all things, in order that it may the better occupy itself with the love of God—it is not Thy will it should have the joy of ascending at once to the possession of perfect love? I have spoken amiss; I ought to have said, and my complaint should have been, why is it we do not? for the fault is wholly our own that we do not rejoice at once in a dignity so great, seeing that the attaining to the perfect possession of this true love brings all blessings with it.

We think so much of ourselves, and are so dilatory in giving ourselves wholly to God, that, as His Majesty will not let us have the fruition of that which is so precious but at a great cost, so neither do we perfectly prepare ourselves for it. I see plainly that there is nothing by which so great a good can be procured in this world. If, however, we did what we could, not clinging to anything upon earth, but having all our thoughts and conversation in Heaven, I believe that this blessing would quickly be given us, provided we perfectly prepared ourselves for it at once, as some of the saints have done. We think we are giving all to God; but, in fact, we are offering only the revenue or the produce, while we retain the fee-simple of the land in our own possession.

We resolve to become poor, and it is a resolution of great merit; but we very often take great care not to be in want, not simply of what is necessary, but of what is superfluous: yea, and to make for ourselves friends who may supply us; and in this way we take more pains, and perhaps expose ourselves to greater danger, in order that we may want nothing, than we did formerly, when we had our own possessions in our own power.”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

BTP-LOT13 – The Journey of Prayer – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

The Journey of Prayer – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor discuss chapters 9-11 in St. Teresa’s autobiography. In them, St. Teresa explores the degrees of prayer, moving from ascetical prayer to mystical prayer. She reflects on struggles, the importance of renewing the gift of prayer, and introduces the idea of the prayer of quiet as a mystical gift from God. Dr. Lilles observes she makes use of an analogy to a garden, meant to highlight the transformative journey.

The discussion underscores the boldness and courage required in following the Lord and the need to find a sacred place of prayer, especially in challenging times.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. Degrees of Prayer: How does St. Teresa of Avila transition from describing her life before conversion to exploring the different degrees of prayer in chapters 9-11?
  2. Struggles in Prayer: What struggles does Teresa face in her prayer life, particularly in chapter 9, and how does she overcome discouragement?
  3. Obedience in Sharing Mystical Prayer: Why does Teresa express reluctance to talk about the mystical prayer of quiet, and how does she connect it to obedience?
  4. Analogies for Prayer: How does Teresa use analogies, such as the garden metaphor, to explain the importance of devotion and personal engagement in prayer?
  5. Transformation in Prayer: Discuss the transformative journey from ascetical prayer to mystical prayer as Teresa introduces the prayer of quiet in chapter 10.
  6. Boldness and Courage: Why is boldness and courage emphasized in the context of following the Lord, drawing parallels with other saints like St. Augustine?
  7. Finding a Sacred Place: In challenging times, why is it crucial, according to Dr. Lilles, to find a sacred place of prayer and trust in God’s love and mercy?

An excerpt from Chapter 11, discussed in this episode:

“I speak now of those who begin to be the servants of love; that seems to me to be nothing else but to resolve to follow Him in the way of prayer, who has loved us so much. It is a dignity so great, that I have a strange joy in thinking of it; for servile fear vanishes at once, if we are, as we ought to be, in the first degree. O Lord of my soul, and my good, how is it that, when a soul is determined to love Thee—doing all it can, by forsaking all things, in order that it may the better occupy itself with the love of God—it is not Thy will it should have the joy of ascending at once to the possession of perfect love? I have spoken amiss; I ought to have said, and my complaint should have been, why is it we do not? for the fault is wholly our own that we do not rejoice at once in a dignity so great, seeing that the attaining to the perfect possession of this true love brings all blessings with it.

We think so much of ourselves, and are so dilatory in giving ourselves wholly to God, that, as His Majesty will not let us have the fruition of that which is so precious but at a great cost, so neither do we perfectly prepare ourselves for it. I see plainly that there is nothing by which so great a good can be procured in this world. If, however, we did what we could, not clinging to anything upon earth, but having all our thoughts and conversation in Heaven, I believe that this blessing would quickly be given us, provided we perfectly prepared ourselves for it at once, as some of the saints have done. We think we are giving all to God; but, in fact, we are offering only the revenue or the produce, while we retain the fee-simple of the land in our own possession.

We resolve to become poor, and it is a resolution of great merit; but we very often take great care not to be in want, not simply of what is necessary, but of what is superfluous: yea, and to make for ourselves friends who may supply us; and in this way we take more pains, and perhaps expose ourselves to greater danger, in order that we may want nothing, than we did formerly, when we had our own possessions in our own power.”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

BTP-LOT12 – Saints Inspiring Saints – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

Saints Inspiring Saints – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore Chapter 9 of St. Teresa of Avila’s autobiography in part two of a two-part episode, going into further detail about a profound moment in the life of St. Teresa of Avila, where she reflects on her own spiritual journey and draws parallels with St. Augustine’s conversion.

From that, Dr. Lilles talks about the interconnectedness of saints, and how they highlight the importance of witnessing, continuous conversion, and not seeking consolations in prayer. He also discusses the importance of seeking God with a pure heart, renouncing sin, and being actively receptive to God’s gifts in and during contemplative prayer.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. Reflecting on Transformative Moments: How do transformative moments in the lives of saints, such as St. Teresa’s encounter with a statue of Jesus, inspire and guide our own spiritual journey?
  2. Influence of Saints on Spiritual Lineage: Consider the idea of saints influencing one another, forming a spiritual lineage. How does this interconnectedness impact the broader Christian community and individual believers?
  3. The Role of Witnessing in Faith: Explore the significance of witnessing in the faith journey. How can sharing personal experiences of conversion and grace inspire and support others in their spiritual growth?
  4. Conversion as a Continuous Journey: Reflect on the concept of continuous conversion presented in the episode. How does this perspective challenge or complement the understanding of spiritual growth in your own life?
  5. Balancing Emotions and Grace in Prayer: How can one strike a balance between seeking emotional consolations in prayer and actively focusing on maintaining a clear conscience, turning away from sin, and being receptive to God’s grace?
  6. Contemplative Graces in Prayer: Consider the beauty of contemplative graces and the notion of being actively receptive to God’s gifts in prayer. How can fostering an actively receptive disposition enhance your prayer life?
  7. Seeking God with a Pure Heart: Reflect on the importance of seeking God with a pure heart, as discussed in the episode. How might this focus influence your approach to prayer, relationship with God, and the journey of faith?

An excerpt from Chapter 9, discussed in this episode:

“At this time, the Confessions of St. Augustine were given me. Our Lord seems to have so ordained it, for I did not seek them myself, neither had I ever seen them before. I had a very great devotion to St. Augustine, because the monastery in which I lived when I was yet in the world was of his Order; and also because he had been a sinner—for I used to find great comfort in those Saints whom, after they had sinned, our Lord converted to Himself. I thought they would help me, and that, as our Lord had forgiven them, so also He would forgive me. One thing, however, there was that troubled me—I have spoken of it before—our Lord had called them but once, and they never relapsed; while my relapses were now so many. This it was that vexed me. But calling to mind the love that He bore me, I took courage again. Of His mercy I never doubted once, but I did very often of myself.

O my God, I amazed at the hardness of my heart amidst so many succours from Thee. I am filled with dread when I see how little I could do with myself, and how I was clogged, so that I could not resolve to give myself entirely to God. When I began to read the Confessions, I thought I saw myself there described, and began to recommend myself greatly to this glorious Saint. When I came to his conversion, and read how he heard that voice in the garden, it seemed to me nothing less than that our Lord had uttered it for me: I felt so in my heart. I remained for some time lost in tears, in great inward affliction and distress. O my God, what a soul has to suffer because it has lost the liberty it had of being mistress over itself! and what torments it has to endure! I wonder now how I could live in torments so great: God be praised Who gave me life, so that I might escape from so fatal a death! I believe that my soul obtained great strength from His Divine Majesty, and that He must have heard my cry, and had compassion upon so many tears.”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

BTP-LOT11 – St. Teresa’s Transformative Moment – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

St. Teresa’s Transformative Moment – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore Chapter 9 of St. Teresa of Avila’s autobiography in part one of a two-part episode, starting with her transformative encounter with a statue of the wounded Christ. This pivotal moment leads to deep conversion as Teresa, tired of a dual life, experiences tears of compunction, realizing Christ’s sacrificial love.

Dr. Lilles highlights the method of prayer Teresa adopts, particularly the importance of using one’s imagination to picture Christ during prayer and using that as a connection to the remembrance of Christ and the transformative power of returning to moments of grace through prayer.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. How do external objects of devotion, like statues, aid your prayer life?
  2. In what ways can spiritual exhaustion manifest in your own journey, hindering genuine peace in prayer?
  3. Reflect on a moment when you felt spiritually vulnerable and encountered God’s love.
  4. Consider Teresa’s commitment not to backslide. How can you maintain spiritual progress amidst life’s challenges?
  5. Explore the role of tears in contrition and conversion. How has compunction (the gift of tears) played a part in your spiritual growth?
  6. Reflect on your prayer methods. How does your imagination contribute to your encounters with Christ?
  7. In what ways can you incorporate the remembrance of Christ into your daily prayer life for transformative effects?

An excerpt from Chapter 9, discussed in this episode:

“My soul was now grown weary; and the miserable habits it had contracted would not suffer it to rest, though it was desirous of doing so. It came to pass one day, when I went into the oratory, that I saw a picture which they had put by there, and which had been procured for a certain feast observed in the house. It was a representation of Christ most grievously wounded; and so devotional, that the very sight of it, when I saw it, moved me—so well did it show forth that which He suffered for us. So keenly did I feel the evil return I had made for those wounds, that I thought my heart was breaking. I threw myself on the ground beside it, my tears flowing plenteously, and implored Him to strengthen me once for all, so that I might never offend Him any more.

I had a very great devotion to the glorious Magdalene, and very frequently used to think of her conversion—especially when I went to Communion. As I knew for certain that our Lord was then within me, I used to place myself at His feet, thinking that my tears would not be despised. I did not know what I was saying; only He did great things for me, in that He was pleased I should shed those tears, seeing that I so soon forgot that impression. I used to recommend myself to that glorious Saint, that she might obtain my pardon.

But this last time, before that picture of which I am speaking, I seem to have made greater progress; for I was now very distrustful of myself, placing all my confidence in God. It seems to me that I said to Him then that I would not rise up till He granted my petition. I do certainly believe that this was of great service to me, because I have grown better ever since.”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

BTP-LOT10 – Into the Heart of Conversion – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles – Discerning Hearts Podcast

Into the Heart of Conversion – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor explore Chapter 8 of St. Teresa of Avila’s autobiography, delving into her struggles with prayer and sin. The conversation emphasizes the courage required to persevere in prayer despite personal sinfulness, with St. Teresa stressing the transformative power of trusting in the Lord’s mercy for a profound conversion.

Dr. Lilles notes St. Teresa’s early articulation of themes found in later works, praising her unique writing style. They discuss the intrinsic link between prayer and sin, the significance of facing sins in God’s presence, and conclude by highlighting the transformative power of contemplative prayer amid life’s challenges.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles 

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila 

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

 

  1. Prayer and Transformation: Reflect on how your personal prayer life has led to transformation in your own life, similar to St. Teresa of Avila’s experience.
  2. Sin and Prayer: How do you balance the awareness of your sinfulness with the call to deeper prayer, as St. Teresa did?
  3. Fear in Prayer: Have you experienced fear or reluctance in approaching prayer, and how have you overcome it?
  4. The Role of Silence: Consider the role of silence in your prayer life. How does silence help you connect more deeply with God?
  5. Friendship with Jesus: Reflect on the concept of mental prayer as “friendly intercourse” with Jesus. How does this perspective change your approach to prayer?
  6. Perseverance in Prayer: Reflect on times when you found it challenging to persevere in prayer. What motivated you to continue?
  7. Eucharistic Adoration: How does Eucharistic adoration fit into your spiritual life, and what fruits have you experienced from this devotion?
  8. Confronting Sin through Prayer: How does prayer help you confront and deal with sin in your life?
  9. The Impact of Homilies: Consider how homilies and teachings at Mass have influenced your prayer life and spiritual growth.
  10. Seeing Jesus in Need: Reflect on the practice of visualizing Jesus in poverty and need, as suggested by St. Teresa. How does this affect your relationship with Him?

An excerpt from Chapter 8, discussed in this episode:

“It is not without reason that I have dwelt so long on this portion of my life. I see clearly that it will give no one pleasure to see anything so base; and certainly I wish those who may read this to have me in abhorrence, as a soul so obstinate and so ungrateful to Him Who did so much for me. I could wish, too, I had permission to say how often at this time I failed in my duty to God, because I was not leaning on the strong pillar of prayer. I passed nearly twenty years on this stormy sea, falling and rising, but rising to no good purpose, seeing that I went and fell again. My life was one of perfection; but it was so mean, that I scarcely made any account whatever of venial sins; and though of mortal sins I was afraid, I was not so afraid of them as I ought to have been, because I did not avoid the perilous occasions of them. I may say that it was the most painful life that can be imagined, because I had no sweetness in God, and no pleasure in the world.

When I was in the midst of the pleasures of the world, the remembrance of what I owed to God made me sad; and when I was praying to God, my worldly affections disturbed me. This is so painful a struggle, that I know not how I could have borne it for a month, let alone for so many years. Nevertheless, I can trace distinctly the great mercy of our Lord to me, while thus immersed in the world, in that I had still the courage to pray. I say courage, because I know of nothing in the whole world which requires greater courage than plotting treason against the King, knowing that He knows it, and yet never withdrawing from His presence; for, granting that we are always in the presence of God, yet it seems to me that those who pray arc in His presence in a very different sense; for they, as it were, see that He is looking upon them; while others may be for days together without even once recollecting that God sees them.”

Excerpt from Chapter 8 from “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.


 

BTP-LOT9 – Struggles with Prayer and Relationships – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles Discerning Hearts Podcast

Struggles with Prayer and Relationships – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Join Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor as they dive into the life of St. Teresa of Avila, using her autobiography, “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”.

In this podcast episode, Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor focus on Chapter 7  and her spiritual journey and struggles. They discuss how Teresa’s illness led to a renewed connection with prayer and the discovery of St. Joseph’s devotion. The conversation highlights her difficulties with prayer due to distractions and the influence of negative relationships, particularly those not conducive to her religious life. A significant part of the discussion revolves around her relationship with her father and how this influenced her spiritual growth, leading to a deeper understanding of prayer and devotion amidst life’s challenges. The episode emphasizes the importance of dedicated prayer time and maintaining spiritual focus despite external distractions.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

For more episodes in this series: The Life of St. Teresa of Avila; with Dr. Anthony Lilles 

For an audio version of the book  “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila 

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics, you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Discerning Hearts reflection questions for this episode:

  1. How can personal relationships impact our spiritual journey, as seen in St. Teresa’s life?
  2. In what ways do struggles and challenges deepen our faith and prayer life?
  3. How can we balance our spiritual commitments with our earthly responsibilities, similar to St. Teresa?
  4. What insights can we gain from St. Teresa’s relationship with her father about honesty in our spiritual lives?
  5. How does the concept of praying without ceasing apply to modern-day challenges?

An excerpt for Chapter 7, discussed in this episode:

“The reason why they thought I was not so wicked was this: they saw that I, who was so young, and exposed to so many occasions of sin, withdrew myself so often into solitude for prayer, read much, spoke of God, that I liked to have His image painted in many places, to have an oratory of my own, and furnish it with objects of devotion, that I spoke ill of no one, and other things of the same kind in me which have the appearance of virtue. Yet all the while—I was so vain—I knew how to procure respect for myself by doing those things which in the world are usually regarded with respect.

In consequence of this, they gave me as much liberty as they did to the oldest nuns, and even more, and had great confidence in me; for as to taking any liberty for myself, or doing anything without leave—such as conversing through the door, or in secret, or by night—I do not think I could have brought myself to speak with anybody in the monastery in that way, and I never did it; for our Lord held me back. It seemed to me—for I considered many things carefully and of set purpose—that it would be a very evil deed on my part, wicked as I was, to risk the credit of so many nuns, who were all good—as if everything else I did was well done! In truth, the evil I did was not the result of deliberation, as this would have been, if I had done it, although it was too much so.

Therefore, I think that it did me much harm to be in a monastery not enclosed. The liberty which those who were good might have with advantage—they not being obliged to do more than they do, because they had not bound themselves to enclosure—would certainly have led me, who am wicked, straight to hell, if our Lord, by so many remedies and means of His most singular mercy, had not delivered me out of that danger—and it is, I believe, the very greatest danger—namely, a monastery of women unenclosed—yea, more, I think it is, for those who will be wicked, a road to hell, rather than a help to their weakness. This is not to be understood of my monastery; for there are so many there who in the utmost sincerity, and in great perfection, serve our Lord, so that His Majesty, according to His goodness, cannot but be gracious unto them; neither is it one of those which are most open for all religious observances are kept in it; and I am speaking only of others which I have seen and known.”

Excerpt from Chapter 7 from “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.


  • 00:00-01:41: Introduction to the podcast
  • 01:41-02:11: Dr. Lilles and McGregor discuss St. Teresa’s life.
  • 02:11-04:25: Focus on a chapter in St. Teresa’s autobiography about her struggles with prayer and relationships.
  • 04:25-06:53: Discussion on how personal relationships can impact one’s spiritual journey.
  • 06:53-08:17: The importance of prayer in religious life and the challenges posed by external relationships.
  • 08:17-10:35: Discussion on continuous prayer and balancing spiritual and earthly responsibilities.
  • 10:35-13:30: The influence of friendships on spiritual growth.
  • 16:02-18:31: Examination of St. Teresa’s relationship with her father and its impact on her spiritual life.
  • 18:31-22:01: Detailed look at a pivotal conversation between St. Teresa and her father.
  • 22:01-24:47: Reflections on accompanying someone at the time of death.
  • 24:47-27:59: The significance of dedicated prayer time in different life stages.
  • 27:59-30:44: Discussion on overcoming self-doubt and trusting in God’s love.
  • 30:44-31:59: Closing reflections and encouragement for deep prayer.

BTP-LOT8 – A Spiritual Awakening Through Suffering – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles Discerning Hearts Podcast

A Spiritual Awakening Through Suffering – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Join Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor as they dive into the life of St. Teresa of Avila, using her autobiography, “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”. In this episode, Dr. Lilles discuss Teresa’s novitiate experience, where she was considered dead for four days.

Her severe illness, questionable medical treatment, and subsequent recovery are recounted, emphasizing her gratitude for God’s grace and a renewed commitment to prayer during a three-year recovery marked by comas and pain. Teresa’s struggle with discouragement during her recovery becomes a central theme, with a focus on her fear of offending God and reluctance to confront her imperfections. The concept of fear of the Lord is explored, distinguishing it from a fearful approach to God, with Dr. Lilles stressing the need to acknowledge one’s limitations, surrender to God, and trust in His mercy.

The transformative nature of prayer is also highlighted, acknowledging that engaging in prayer may initially disrupt one’s life. However, through prayer, individuals come to realize their dependence on God and His guidance through struggles. The potential fear of God asking individuals to do challenging things is discussed, with an emphasis on trust in His intentions for spiritual growth.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

“After those four days, during which I was insensible, so great was my distress, that our Lord alone knoweth the intolerable sufferings I endured. My tongue was bitten to pieces; there was a choking in my throat because I had taken nothing, and because of my weakness, so that I could not swallow even a drop of water; all my bones seemed to be out of joint, and the disorder of my head was extreme. I was bent together like a coil of ropes—for to this was I brought by the torture of those days—unable to move either arm, or foot, or hand, or head, any more than if I had been dead, unless others moved me; I could move, however, I think, one finger of my right hand. Then, as to touching me, that was impossible, for I was so bruised that I could not endure it. They used to move me in a sheet, one holding one end, and another the other. This lasted till Palm Sunday.

The only comfort I had was this—if no one came near me, my pains frequently ceased; and then, because I had a little rest, I considered myself well, for I was afraid my patience would fail: and thus I was exceedingly happy when I saw myself free from those pains which were so sharp and constant, though in the cold fits of an intermittent fever, which were most violent, they were still unendurable. My dislike of food was very great.

I was now so anxious to return to my monastery, that I had myself conveyed thither in the state I was in. There they received alive one whom they had waited for as dead; but her body was worse than dead: the sight of it could only give pain. It is impossible to describe my extreme weakness, for I was nothing but bones. I remained in this state, as I have already said,126 more than eight months; and was paralytic, though getting better, for about three years. I praised God when I began to crawl on my hands and knees. I bore all this with great resignation, and, if I except the beginning of my illness, with great joy; for all this was as nothing in comparison with the pains and tortures I had to bear at first. I was resigned to the will of God, even if He left me in this state for ever. My anxiety about the recovery of my health seemed to be grounded on my desire to pray in solitude, as I had been taught; for there were no means of doing so in the infirmary. I went to confession most frequently, spoke much about God, and in such a way as to edify everyone; and they all marvelled at the patience which our Lord gave me—for if it had not come from the hand 34 of His Majesty, it seemed impossible to endure so great an affliction with so great a joy.”

Excerpt from Chapter 6 from “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”


Listen Here to the Discerning Hearts audio recording of “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.


  • 0:00-4:35: Introduction and gratitude for exploring St. Teresa’s life.
  • 4:35-8:30: Discussion of St. Teresa’s novitiate experience, being considered dead for four days, and the significance of this event.
  • 8:30-11:25: St. Teresa’s severe illness, questionable medical treatment, and her recovery marked by comas and pain.
  • 11:25-15:05: Brief discussion of the nature of St. Teresa’s ailment and parallels with modern medicine.
  • 15:05-17:15: The importance of cultivating mindfulness of death and how serious illness can foster such awareness.
  • 17:15-20:25: St. Teresa’s struggle with discouragement during her recovery, fear of offending God, and the concept of fear of the Lord.
  • 20:25-23:20: Msgr. Esseff’s insight on approaching God with humility, acknowledging limitations, and trusting in God’s mercy.
  • 23:20-27:05: St. Teresa’s discouragement due to a misunderstanding of fear and failure to accept her position as a beggar before God.
  • 27:05-30:30: The transformative nature of prayer, disrupting one’s life, and realizing dependence on God through struggles.
  • 30:30-33:45: Potential fear of God asking individuals to do challenging things and the importance of trust in His intentions.
  • 33:45-37:20: Caution against the abuse of devotions, true devotion involving surrender to God’s will, and St. Teresa’s devotion to St. Joseph.
  • 37:20-40:30: St. Teresa’s upcoming journey of embracing the gift of prayer and learning from St. Joseph’s silent guidance.
  • 40:30-44:00: St. Joseph’s continued care for humanity and his role in St. Teresa’s reform, including the establishment of the first convent dedicated to him.
  • 44:00-45:38: Conclusion and summary of the overarching theme emphasizing humility, surrender, and trust in God’s mercy.

BTP-LOT7 – Safeguarding the Spirit – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles Discerning Hearts Podcast

Safeguarding the Spirit – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Join Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor as they dive into the life of St. Teresa of Avila, using her autobiography, “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”. In this episode, Dr. Lilles discusses cultivating healthy and fitting relationships, with a particular focus on their spiritual implications. Drawing from Chapter 5 of her autobiography, he uses the example of St. Teresa of Avila and how her spiritual journey was influenced by a priest engaged in an inappropriate relationship, underscoring the perils of developing emotional bonds that deviate from the appropriate roles individuals play in one’s life, such as priests, spiritual guides, or even spouses. A cautionary note is sounded against delving into magical or occult practices, as these can potentially expose one to spiritual malevolence.

The experience advocates for the assessment of relationships based on one’s primary responsibilities and caution against becoming excessively absorbed in another person; stressing the necessity of stepping back or ending a relationship if it hinders spiritual growth.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

“I began, then, by going to confession to that priest of whom I spoke before.119 He took an extreme liking to me, because I had then but little to confess in comparison with what I had afterwards; and I had never much to say since I became a nun. There was no harm in the liking he had for me, but it ceased to be good, because it was in excess. He clearly understood that I was determined on no account whatever to do anything whereby God might be seriously offended. He, too, gave me a like assurance about himself, and accordingly our conferences were many. But at that time, through the knowledge and fear of God which filled my soul, what gave me most pleasure in all my conversations with others was to speak of God; and, as I was so young, this made him ashamed; and then, out of that great goodwill he bore me, he began to tell me of his wretched state. It was very sad, for he had been nearly seven years in a most perilous condition, because of his affection for, and conversation with, a woman of that place; and yet he used to say Mass. The matter was so public, that his honour and good name were lost, and no one ventured to speak to him about it. I was extremely sorry for him, because I liked him much. I was then so imprudent and so blind as to think it a virtue to be grateful and loyal to one who liked me. Cursed be that loyalty which reaches so far as to go against the law of God. It is a madness common in the world, and it makes me mad to see it. We are indebted to God for all the good that men do to us, and yet we hold it to be an act of virtue not to break a friendship of this kind, though it lead us to go against Him. Oh, blindness of the world! Let me, O Lord, be most ungrateful to the world; never at all unto Thee. But I have been altogether otherwise through my sins.

I procured further information about the matter from members of his household; I learned more of his ruinous state, and saw that the poor man’s fault was not so grave, because the miserable woman had had recourse to enchantments, by giving him a little image made of copper, which she had begged him to wear for love of her around his neck; and this no one had influence enough to persuade him to throw away. As to this matter of enchantments, I do not believe it to be altogether true; but I will relate what I saw, by way of warning to men to be on their guard against women who will do things of this kind. And let them be assured of this, that women—for they are more bound to purity than men—if once they have lost all shame before God, are in nothing whatever to be trusted; and that in exchange for the gratification of their will, and of that affection which the devil suggests, they will hesitate at nothing.

Though I have been so wicked myself, I never fell into anything of this kind, nor did I ever attempt to do evil; nor, if I had the power, would I have ever constrained any one to like me, for our Lord kept me from this. But if He had abandoned me, I should have done wrong in this, as I did in other things—for there is nothing in me whereon anyone may rely.”

Excerpt from Chapter 5  from “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”


Listen Here to the Discerning Hearts audio recording of “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.

 

 

BTP-LOT6 – Struggles with Sin and Patience – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles Discerning Hearts Podcast

Struggles with Sin and Patience – The Life of St. Teresa of Avila – Beginning to Pray with Dr. Anthony Lilles

Join Dr. Anthony Lilles and Kris McGregor as they dive into the life of St. Teresa of Avila, using her autobiography, “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”. In this episode, Dr. Lilles goes over how as a young adult, Teresa was already experiencing advanced favors in prayer and was practicing recollection. However, she was also struggling with sin and backsliding, which hindered her spiritual growth. She was inspired by a fellow sister who showed great patience in suffering, and asked God for the grace to have the same patience. Teresa’s journey was also marked by struggles with confessors who gave her bad counsel, downplaying the seriousness of her sins.

They also discuss the concept of fear of the Lord, explaining that it is not about fearing God as an angry tyrant, but understanding that sin is repugnant to God because it harms us and prevents us from fulfilling our purpose.


St. Teresa of Avila Interior Castle Podcast Anthony Lilles Kris McGregor

“I forgot to say how, in the year of my novitiate, I suffered much uneasiness about things in themselves of no importance; but I was found fault with very often when I was blameless. I bore it painfully and with imperfection; however, I went through it all, because of the joy I had in being a nun. When they saw me seeking to be alone, and even weeping over my sins at times, they thought I was discontented, and said so.

All religious observances had an attraction for me, but I could not endure any which seemed to make me contemptible. I delighted in being thought well of by others, and was very exact in everything I had to do. All this I thought was a virtue, though it will not serve as any excuse for me, because I knew what it was to procure my own satisfaction in everything, and so ignorance does not blot out the blame. There may be some excuse in the fact that the monastery was not founded in great perfection. I, wicked as I was, followed after that which I saw was wrong, and neglected that which was good.

There was then in the house a nun labouring under a most grievous and painful disorder, for there were open ulcers in her body, caused by certain obstructions, through which her food was rejected. Of this sickness she soon died. All the sisters, I saw, were afraid of her malady. I envied her patience very much; I prayed to God that He would give me a like patience; and then, whatever sickness it might be His pleasure to send, I do not think I was afraid of any, for I was resolved on gaining eternal good, and determined to gain it by any and by every means.”

Excerpt from Chapter 5 from “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus of The Order of Our Lady of Carmel”


Listen Here to the Discerning Hearts audio recording of “The Life of St. Teresa of Jesus” by St. Teresa of Avila

For other audio recordings of various spiritual classics you can visit the Discerning Hearts Spiritual Classics page.


Anthony Lilles, S.T.D. is an associate professor and the academic dean of Saint John’s Seminary in Camarillo as well as the academic advisor for Juan Diego House of Priestly Formation for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. For over twenty years he served the Church in Northern Colorado where he joined and eventually served as dean of the founding faculty of Saint John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver. Through the years, clergy, seminarians, religious and lay faithful have benefited from his lectures and retreat conferences on the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the writings of St. Elisabeth of the Trinity.